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[2012] First Issue Renting my Timeshares

Discussion in 'Buying, Selling, Renting' started by HenryT, Apr 30, 2012.

  1. Beefnot

    Beefnot TUG Member

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    But that's my question, what is more risky about a timeshare rental than a the rental of a condo I purport to own?

    Are timeshare transactions of any kind (i.e., including sales) considered high risk? If so, then my guess is that in addition to the risk of timeshare rentals--which seems to be really no different than house or condo rentals--issues with timeshare sale transactions have pushed Paypal to hyper-correct and place fund holds for all timeshare transactions, assuming that is what Paypal is now doing.
     
  2. presley

    presley TUG Review Crew: Expert TUG Member

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    I don't know. Maybe they have had too many issues with people not paying MFs or assessments. Or, maybe too many of the people who stay the whole week and then demand a refund because they ran out of toilet paper. If I had to deal with dumb claims like that, I'd cut out all timeshare deals, too.
     
  3. Beefnot

    Beefnot TUG Member

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    Perhaps. But I really do believe it is timeshare sales that tipped the scales. Poking around on the paypal site, I see complaints around the 45 day rule. People unable to get paypal to help them if they have paid for the timeshare more than 45 days ago. What do they do if they didn't pay using a credit card, but paid from their checking accounts? They are stuck, no?

    People entering ebay transactions for timeshares (myself included) really haven't internalized that this is still a legal real estate transaction, and in many cases there is no licensed bonded escrow company, or the escrow company and the seller are basically one in the same.

    My hunch is that issues with timeshare rentals are a side story but not the heart of the problem that is causing paypal's alleged change of heart around timeshare support.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2012
  4. dioxide45

    dioxide45 TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    Even if the renter wins the dispute and the credit card company returns the funds, the OP still has a case in which they can take to small claims court. Just because the credit card company thinks the renter should get the money back, doesn't mean the law does. If the renter wins the dispute, take it to small claims court. You have a signed contract. If the renter didn't pay (because they won the dispute), you can still enforce the contract that is in place.

    A lot of companies are also pushing back on disputes. Dispute a car rental charge after you have returned the car, expect a bill in the mail asking for the money to be sent via check. Just because you won the dispute, it doesn't clear the way to not pay for a service or product.
     
  5. HenryT

    HenryT Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    The problem with taking the renter to small claims court is that the renter is in a different state. Whose court do you file with? Does my county court have any jurisdiction over a county in a different state? Taking someone to court in this case could be very expensive.
     
  6. am1

    am1 TUG Member

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    I would say their county unless it was written into the rental agreement.
     
  7. HenryT

    HenryT Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    Going to their county would seem to be the correct one but if I have to physically go to their state and county it get's expensive; and it would probably take at least two trips (1 to file and 1 for the court date) in addition to time off from work.
     
  8. vacationhopeful

    vacationhopeful TUG Member

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    Trust me, if they see you in the courtroom, they will ask the judge for a postponement to consult/retain a lawyer. In my state, EVERYONE has the right to 1 postponement with any real reason.

    Figure 3 or 4 trips. :(
     
  9. dioxide45

    dioxide45 TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    Perhaps write an arbitration clause in to rental contracts?
     
  10. Carlsbadguy

    Carlsbadguy TUG Member

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    I have also had problems with paypal, so I cahnged my payment strategy. I have started asking for a small deposit on paypal and then I ask for the rest of the money as a direct deposit into my bank account.
     
  11. learnalot

    learnalot TUG Member

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    How do you get a direct deposit to your bank account without giving them your account number?
     
  12. Beefnot

    Beefnot TUG Member

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    You cannot I believe.
     
  13. dioxide45

    dioxide45 TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    You can actually use a service like PopMoney (our bank uses this), other banks have similar services under a different name. You only need an e-mail address or mobile phone number. The receiver of the money then sets up an account that associates their e-mail address or phone number with a bank routing and account number. It only works with direct bank transfers and doesn't let people pay with a credit card like PayPal where they can later dispute.
     
  14. exyeh

    exyeh TUG Member

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    I was advised that to give the bank account name and account number would not have any risk. It's just like you writing a check, all the info is printed on it.
    I did one time that asking the $100 deposit to paypal and the rest of it be deposit to the bank account, I think it is safe this way. With the $100 deposit, the renter would not want to wait a long time to finish the deal.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2012
  15. presley

    presley TUG Review Crew: Expert TUG Member

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    That makes sense to me. Great idea to ask for a direct deposit.
     
  16. NWL

    NWL TUG Member

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    I prefer to use PayPal for a $100 deposit and accept a personal check for the balance. So far so good, and no one gets access to my personal accounts.
     
  17. Beefnot

    Beefnot TUG Member

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    Fear of giving an acct number is more psychological concern than real concern.
     
  18. dioxide45

    dioxide45 TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    The only concern there should be is if you are dealing with a scammer who will take that information and print up some checks on their PC. Having a routing and account number, someone can empty a check account. Though they have to have the know how and desire to rip you off.
     
  19. Beefnot

    Beefnot TUG Member

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    Correct. And if you have already gotten a deposit in some other form and their info (including photocopy of driver's license, which is vital for any rental), then the scammer risk is for all intents and purposes zero. That said, it is still difficult for me to want to cough up that type of information.
     
  20. rjp123

    rjp123 TUG Member

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    Good call here. Put this in plus a clause around cost of recovery.
     
  21. mikron

    mikron Guest

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    We have been renting since 2004 (1,400 points) and always get 100% with in 10 days of sending the guest their reservation from Disney. Yes it is a trust thing both ways but as an owner we can get screwed by renter (scam). We take cert. check or personal check only. Rent approximatley 6 to 8 contracts per year and have not had one problem as of now.
     
  22. Tamaradarann

    Tamaradarann TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    Rental Money Upfront

    I have only rented my timeshares 2 times but to avoid the hassles that are being discussed here I insisted upon payment either by personal check at least 2 months before the check in time; or certified check or bank transfer if 1month before check in time. One of renters had a problem with the terms but when I said I was going to cancel the reservation if I didn't get the certified check or bank transfer by a certain date they did the bank transfer.
     
  23. foreverloves

    foreverloves Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    That's interesting. It doesn't remind me of that situation at all. The differences are striking and obvious. For starters, this OP had a rental agreement signed and in place. In the example you're citing, there wasn't an agreement, or even a confirmed reservation. Second, the OP had collected payment in full. In the situation you're referencing, the only payment applied was a deposit, in the absence of an agreement requiring same. Third, this OP states that the renter immediately opened a dispute with paypal rather than attempting to work with the situation. It also appears (by inference) that the OP was 100% reachable and not in a foreign country, but the renter chose this route anyway.

    When there is a written agreement between parties, it should be honored. Period. Paypal will not intervene. Paypal tends to side with the buyer/renter, even in situations where they should not. Paypal can - and WILL - remove funds from your account if there is a chargeback and your account will no longer be usable until you refund the money that was taken from your account. Paypal isn't necessarily a wise solution for timeshare rentals. Interestingly enough, I had a good experience using Paypal to rent my Grande Vista week. Before money was exchanged, however, I had a written agreement in place that adequately and completely described the rights and responsibilities, including a clearly-worded refund policy, though the presence of this would not preclude problems, unfortunately. But it's a step in the right direction.

    In this case, for the OP, I know it's annoying to take to court, but I might be inclined. It is not fair for an owner to secure a renter, provide written guidelines, and then have those guidelines ignored. If you know of a situation where a renter signed an agreement, paid, and then failed to perform in clear violation of a written rental agreement, you let me know.

    Cheers!
     
  24. GTStone

    GTStone TUG Member

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    Using PayPal

    I carefully studied the contract provided by PayPal and made a decision not to use them. I have never regretted that choice.

    A couple of years ago I still had to deal with them. Someone from Indonesia hacked my "store" and diverted the payment to their PayPal account. A couple of days later, a client called to say he had just made a purchase and charged it to PayPal, which I did not provide. We both contacted PayPal fraud unit, I deleted the store immediately, and they also contacted their credit card company. This all occured within minutes of the transaction.

    The result was very disheartening. Paypal was very evasive with me, and not helpful to my client. They seemed to have no interest in stopping a fraudulent user of their system, although we were able to provide specific details immediately. The bottom line is it took several months, and many calls and letters by my client, to get this mess cleaned up !

    You have no rights with PayPal, even if you believe the contract says otherwise. You will also have a very difficult time reaching anyone who will act on your behalf. Frankly the original "support staff" I dealt with were located in the same area that the hackers were operating. It amazed me that they were unwilling to do anything to prevent this theft !

    If you rent timeshares as a business, get your own credit card merchant account and retain some leverage on how payments are controlled. Otherwise, insist on payment by check ( cash ), and state nothing takes place until the funds are actually transferred. Otherwise, you are at risk !
    :cheer:
     
  25. pentiumii1

    pentiumii1 Guest

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    A few of us are legit.

    I just wanted to throw in my two cents. I have rented timeshares at least 10 times. I do this after as much research as possible has been explored. And even then I hate putting up all of the money and hoping like crazy that the place is there when we arrive. This stress intensifies when we invite other people who may not have known they were taking any risk at all.

    We have had very good success, most likely due to all of the great information on TUG as well as the great contributors. I just wanted to point out that the risk isn't all on you owners and I just want to find your place as it is described on RCI and any other problems can be handled at the resort. Some of us are honest and are happy to enjoy your investment. I can't tell you how my heart sank when the place in CABO told us that we weren't going to get the week. We fixed it but like everything else in CABO they can't make it easy.

    Thank you owners for sharing your properties. I hope you can continue to seek out a payment plan that minimizes the risk for both sides as that is a huge factor when I am picking my vacation spot. Asking me to send a stranger a check for $1000 multiple months before we are going on vacation is a real stretch for me. I would be delighted with an escrow company that is mostly there to protect both sides rather than paypal that is more interested in the ebay volume. Again, just my two cents.
     

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