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[ 2011 ] True Cost of Points From Wyndham [2011]

rrlongwell

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The last serious analysis I saw for a PlatVIP-qualified vs. resale points had a pretty simple bottom line. If *everything* broke *just right*---you get full discounts on every single reservation, including the size upgrade; you require many transactions and guest certificates; you have PIC'd the maximum number of el-cheapo resale weeks; you negotiated hard (possibly with an equity swap) on your purchase price---then the qualified purchase arguably breaks even after about 10 years, and could generate a return after that.

The 10 year number is probably longer by now; that was 2-3 years ago, and since then resale prices have dropped further, and the cost to fully qualify an account has gone up. Worse, the break-even scenario has a lot of "ifs", in my book. A low $/K resale deed is a much simpler value proposition, and so exposes you to much less risk.

As I understand it, a common number in industry on a cost analysis is a 2 year and under break even point is a go. Above 2 years needs to be closely looked at in terms of other goals and priorities.
 

rrlongwell

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you know how I feel about VIP;)
how did you get such a large discount? was it cause you got the free room upgrade also?
Also as a VIP are you able to combine the discouints available to everyone (resort specials) with your VIP discount?

VIP and upgrade for Grand Desert. Never tried combining resort specials with VIP Discount. Just went through the on line Resort Specials. For the dates the same as I have have the same choises that I booked under. For this week, it appears they are giving to the VIP Platium discount to everyone. A friend of ours who has their own account checked a resort they wanted to go to. They are not VIP, they got a 40 percent discount if they had booked it then.
 
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Ridewithme38

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As i understand it...the True cost of Wyndham kicks in when you try to sell it...or to your kids when you pass away...its smooth sailing till then
 

Explorer7

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VIP and upgrade for Grand Desert. Never tried combining resort specials with VIP Discount. Just went through the on line Resort Specials. For the dates the same as I have have the same choises that I booked under. For this week, it appears they are giving to the VIP Platium discount to everyone. A friend of ours who has their own account checked a resort they wanted to go to. They are not VIP, they got a 40 percent discount if they had booked it then.

In the past you could not combine VIP discounts with resort specials, you simply get the higher discount when you book. In a plats case the 50% discount would supersede the 40% resort special.
As a Gold VIP the 40% resort special would supersede my 35% discount.
 

insuralife

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VIP status

What are the top three benefits to having VIP status? I am new to this and trying to figure out where the truth really is.

I have had my time share for a while. I purchased it over the internet at a treee-mendous savings.. I love the concept even though all my friends think I'm crazy.. Here's the points issue...
With a Wyndham VIP at:
300,000 pts you receive a 25% disc if reservation is booked is within 60 days
500,000 pts you receive a 35% disc
1,000,000 pts you receive a 50% disc
The trick VIP owners know to do is to book the vacation at 13 months or 12 months depending on the rules. Then cancel the reservation 59 days before going and rebook! (no charge for the cancellation) You get both the reservation AND the discount!!

So there is a difference.

As far as timesale prices being low-balled, hi-balled or changing.. They can't because of real estate law and rebating.
So the answer? Buy a tiny tiny package from Wyndham and have your existing pts retitled! That is a bargining chip they will not let you walk away on!!

Buy on!! And have fun! Just got back from Vegas.. Grand Desert! You have to try it!!
 

ausman

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The trick VIP owners know to do is to book the vacation at 13 months or 12 months depending on the rules. Then cancel the reservation 59 days before going and rebook! (no charge for the cancellation) You get both the reservation AND the discount!!



One post and this is it.?

Booking at 13 mths is ARP and any owner can do it, you don'nt need to be VIP.

Booking at 12 mths, or more likely 11 months, is utilising RARP and available 1 or 2 times per year only depending if VIP Gold or Platinum.

The VIP program is designed to use slower more available times, if you reserve and cancel a prime summer week for example then you are in in competition with all, while it does work it also does not.

I wonder what the success rate percentage is.

All in all, paying retail for any VIP level is foolish.
 

timeos2

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One post and this is it.?

Booking at 13 mths is ARP and any owner can do it, you don'nt need to be VIP.

Booking at 12 mths, or more likely 11 months, is utilising RARP and available 1 or 2 times per year only depending if VIP Gold or Platinum.

The VIP program is designed to use slower more available times, if you reserve and cancel a prime summer week for example then you are in in competition with all, while it does work it also does not.

I wonder what the success rate percentage is.

All in all, paying retail for any VIP level is foolish.

AMEN! There is no cost to obtain it, today, that can make it a true "deal". You will always pay far more than it's value especially at resale since it cannot be sold thus has a value of zero. Planning to pay thousands upfront on the remote possibility that you can manage to squeeze an equal value out is not a reasonable plan or purchase.

Those who can, possibly but still not certainly, come to breakeven have owned in most cases since resale was qualified to become VIP. Despite an earlier post understand that TODAY there is NO WAY to get VIP using resale points.

Also remember that with resale you are saving from day one and haven't had to front thousands of dollars you HOPE to get back if you're lucky. Instead, with resale, you immediately can get the use of the great Wyndham system for little or no upfront cost and reasonable, if not the lowest, annual fees.

Trying to get VIP today is a bad move. Don't do it.
 

insuralife

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Guys... guys...
I agree..... you can't profit from vacationing if you end up giving Wyndham all your disposable money!
I was attempting to answer a question about VIP status and the benefits.
My last stay at Bonnet Creek I met a great guy who owned 4 million+ points. He paid over ...way over $100,000..
Figure how much you would pay on e-bay for that many points! No comparison and the discount would be much greater ( by 600%+ ) than the 50% discount VIP would give you! So I could not agree more! Resale is the only way to go.. And remember Wyndham specifically made it this way as a benefit to us... They purposely don't want to buy back so there is no level of base $ support! Good for the resale buyer!

Now... Next research is which resort has the best maint fee schedule!
 

raptor78

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Now... Next research is which resort has the best maint fee schedule!

I have been surprised as I have researched these, as the MF is a leading factor in my purchases with ARP being a rare secondary factor. Some of the newest properties still have active sales staff and the MF appear low, and may really stay low, but they risk going up rapidly once the sales staff moves on. San Francisco and National Harbor are a couple like that -- who knows that the future will bring -- surprisingly, some of the older, more established properties have some of the lowest MF -- I have a contract at South Shore at Tahoe with MF at around $3.89/1K -- In my view, nearly an unheard of rate...

So, if you are checking out eBay resale or any of the other resale boards -- I would certainly check the MF first... Most agree anything around $4.50 is a good deal - Above $5.00 and you can find better unless there is another reason you are targeting that specific property (ARP)...

Myrtle Beach is one I am looking at now, due to ARP -- There is absolutely no way you will find the MF low in this area, if you want to own there, you just have to pony up :)

Exploring properties for MF is actually fun -- Let's me consider contracts at properties I would have otherwise never considered, since it may not be a prime location I want to stay at, but the MF for the points make it worth acquiring...

Just my two cents :)

Mike
 

insuralife

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By no means will everyone check avail as often as I do nor do most people have the flexibility to travel that my wife and I enjoy but for those who do I think one of the top benefits is the upgrade to the next available highest unit
So far this year I have had 17 less than 1 week get aways all at 65% of the point value and upgraded about 90 percent of my reservations that have included a 35% discounted 1br at National Harbor upgraded to a 4br Presidential unit.

This summer two 3br's upgraded from 1br’s at Gov Green and a studio upgraded to a 2br presidential at Panama City. By watching the last minute cancelations at National Harbor around the 4th of July I snagged a 3br for a discounted 1br for the 3rd and 4th of July.

Yes the benefit can go away any day and I doubt that most people will work as hard as I do to dig in and get these things but from speaking to others as I travel I have encountered others that do.

Most of the time with married couples "The nerd" which is me in my marriage is the one that enjoys figuring out and taking the time to work the system. The "free spirit" which is my wife enjoys the ride by helping to choose destinations, however she does not know how to get deals on the Wyndham site or stay on top of the changes and "press the envelope" to stay on top. When I meet people while traveling the Wyndham resorts I fine one partner in the marriage knows everything I do and the other knows nothing and does not want to.

This is not a product for a “free spirit” who just wants a fun ride without the work of fully understanding the product better than the sales person and pressing the envelop to figure out how to get great deals …

Most often I am reluctant to chime in when others are warning about VIP benefits because I really don't think most new buyers will ever do what it takes to make it pay and of course the rules can change at any time. I also rarely hear about the upgrades that likely only the savviest VIP’s are taking advantage of and rarely talk about, I should probably keep my mouth shut too.

One thing that keeps me sober is thinking about those who purchased Wyndham points expecting to get 2br’s from their 28K RCI deposits which no longer works. Like the 28K upgrades that went away for RCI deposits made after Jan 11 the huge upgrades and discounts that I enjoy can go away too. But for now they are great and my family is enjoying to the max!

I hope I balanced the benefits with the risk well enough for someone to make a well informed decision during their hopefully extensive research.

:whoopie:

You are a worker! Great going.... You have out done the best of the stories I have heard!
So if I do the math correctly,
$200/1000 points at 50% discount (overall average)= $100/1000 points
the last e-bay sale was $1.00/210,000 pts with $5./mf..
am I right in my thinking???
 

insuralife

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What if I quit

So here's a question for the group... What if I quit paying my maint fees?
What can happen?
N ow, supposing I own a couple resales all with RCI memberships... what if I quit paying one of the mf's AFTER I have transfered the points over to RCI??
 

BellaWyn

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So here's a question for the group... What if I quit paying my maint fees?
What can happen?
N ow, supposing I own a couple resales all with RCI memberships... what if I quit paying one of the mf's AFTER I have transfered the points over to RCI??
Putting your Wyndham points into RCI is:
1) not a cost effective use of those points given the new point structure
2) not guaranteed if the MF's go unpaid

Wyndham and RCI, while separate entities are still in bed together. If your MF's go unpaid on the Wyndham side, they would:
1) Lock down your Wyndham account
2) Lock down your Wyndham-provided RCI account
("lock down" meaning you would have no access without first interfacing with Wyndham accounting <--- a hassle you don't want)

Seriously....???:annoyed: You're pre-planning to defraud the system before you even get into it? WTH!?:eek:
 

bnoble

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your Wyndham-provided RCI account
This is the key bit.

You can only transfer Wyn points into the Wyn-RCI portal. You can't pay for that account independently. As soon as your Wyn goes into default, you'd lose access to the Wyn-RCI portal.

There really is no free lunch.
 

insuralife

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Putting your Wyndham points into RCI is:
1) not a cost effective use of those points given the new point structure
2) not guaranteed if the MF's go unpaid

Wyndham and RCI, while separate entities are still in bed together. If your MF's go unpaid on the Wyndham side, they would:
1) Lock down your Wyndham account
2) Lock down your Wyndham-provided RCI account
("lock down" meaning you would have no access without first interfacing with Wyndham accounting <--- a hassle you don't want)

Seriously....???:annoyed: You're pre-planning to defraud the system before you even get into it? WTH!?:eek:

:cool:

Nooo.. I don't know enough to fool with the system yet! Just a question!
I sell insurance, as with insurance companies, and ways to get what you want inspite of their rules, I wwant to know the rules of this game every bit as well.. I know I will learn tons from you all here!

And I thank you, each and every one, in advance!
 

BellaWyn

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Reading about how much the value of Wyndham points drops after you buy them, I'm feeling much better about my investment in AIG (which lost like 98% of its value). ;)
Michael:
I get the tongue-in-cheek on this... :D but.... two different products with opposing reasons to purchase. AIG buy-in intended for investment. MOST Wyndham owners purchase with the intent "to go on vacation" and hopefully understand they are "pre-paying" to do that (regardless of the original purchase price) in better-than-a-hotel sized unit for their families. The expectation of a return is generally related to memories and time-spent with people the owners enjoy, not to recover the original purchase price.

Again, "value" is relative when it comes to buying Wyndham and will be subjective to each owner.

(value does not always translate to $$'s)
 

BellaWyn

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Nooo.. I don't know enough to fool with the system yet!

It's the "yet" that implies the focused intent to skirt the system. :confused:

Regardless of what games the owners play, the resorts STILL have to maintain the properties, which cost $$! Each property has an HOA that has to deal with non-paying owners and errant deeds that are in transition between seller & buyer. Foreclosures and collections are costly and time consuming. In this down economy as the HOA's struggle for funds the result is an INCREASE in the maintenance fees to the PAYING OWNERS!

The individual owner is not an island.... the games that get played have consequences.:annoyed:
 

rrlongwell

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The individual owner is not an island.... the games that get played have consequences.:annoyed:

If you are going into this with the intent to defraud, you might want to re-consider. The Flordia Attorney General, among others, is apparently having a lot of fun with the Timeshare Industry and people attempting this.
 

MichaelColey

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Michael:
I get the tongue-in-cheek on this... :D but.... two different products with opposing reasons to purchase. AIG buy-in intended for investment. MOST Wyndham owners purchase with the intent "to go on vacation" and hopefully understand they are "pre-paying" to do that (regardless of the original purchase price) in better-than-a-hotel sized unit for their families.
They're more similar than you would think. The biggest difference is that you can KNOW before you purchase that the Wyndham developer points will see a 99% drop in value overnight.

Would you buy a used car from a dealership for $50k when you can buy the exact same car for $500 from the used car lot across the street? What if the dealership threw in free oil changes for life?

In fairness, I understand that many VIP members here bought in when VIP was cheaper and had more benefits and that others didn't realize how much you could save buying resale (or fell for salesman lies), and that some may indeed get enough value out of the VIP benefits for it to be worthwhile.
 
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insuralife

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It's the "yet" that implies the focused intent to skirt the system. :confused:

Regardless of what games the owners play, the resorts STILL have to maintain the properties, which cost $$! Each property has an HOA that has to deal with non-paying owners and errant deeds that are in transition between seller & buyer. Foreclosures and collections are costly and time consuming. In this down economy as the HOA's struggle for funds the result is an INCREASE in the maintenance fees to the PAYING OWNERS!

The individual owner is not an island.... the games that get played have consequences.:annoyed:

I appreciate your warning, however, my 'YET' actually refers to all the discounts that are available, yet not publicized (can I get a free newspaper?). If one goes to a sales presentation, you can never expect to learn how to use the system. You can't learn it in books, you learn from others! So.. any intent to defraud may or may not be a legality issue, it is an ethical issue! I hope enough was said. As for the HOA's running the resorts, I'm a president of a condo HOA. There is no more cut throat business, on earth, that a condo association. SO I know first hand how difficult it is to make ends meet without a certainty of income!
You sound like a Wydham employee, if so please report that my last stay was the best one so far. However, the sales staffer appointed to me was worthless, and not a credit to the team. As a salesman, I'd love to have a sales job with Wydham, but as a floating salesperson (resort to resort, with resort stay as a perk)! They have to be easy to sell to someone that doesn't know better, just as selling a car at list price!:cheer:
 

ronparise

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MOST Wyndham owners purchase with the intent "to go on vacation" and hopefully understand they are "pre-paying" to do that

You sound like a Wyndham salesman when you say that. The salesperson that sold me made that same claim as if going on vacation sucks every shread of common sense out of you

she took the $15000 I was paying for an every other year deal (168000 points eoy) and came up with just $750 a year,...what a deal!

I dont think she realized that I had completed third grade arithmetic and even 55 years later I still remember a little bit of it

What she didnt include was the interest on the note I signed,(18%) over 10 years (monthly payments of over $300 a month) or maintenance fees ($420 a year) or taxes.. my prepaid vacations were going to cost me over $8000 each for the first 5 of them (10 years) and then just maintenance fees of about $400 a year. spread all of it over lets say 30 years and assuming no increase in taxes or mf I would have paid $48000 for 15 vacations or over $3000 each......and then Ill be dead

Yea! what a deal indeed...If I had gone through with it I would have pre paid for vacation memories all right..I would have remembered this screwing for the rest of my life...some memory

I attended the pitch to earn a free vacation and I signed to get out of the room (and also as a lesson in salesmanship) I was at the post office the next day to rescind and a month later pre-paid a dollar for 385000 points



BellaWyn

I agree value doesnt have everything to do with money; but money is part of the equation. Please dont leave some one new to timeshare and new to Wyndham with the impression that it makes sense to buy from the developer.
 

vacationhopeful

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... you can never expect to learn how to use the system. You can't learn it in books, you learn from others!

WRONG!
Most of us learned to use Wyndham by reading the Owner's Manual 3 TIMES with a highlighter or two. Suggest you read, cross reference it, read it with a different color highlighter and THEN read it AGAIN. It is a little confusing until you get the terms down. Then, it does make sense.
 

theo

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I guess I'm an oddball exception...

Most of us learned to use Wyndham by reading the Owner's Manual 3 TIMES with a highlighter or two. Suggest you read, cross reference it, read it with a different color highlighter and THEN read it AGAIN. It is a little confusing until you get the terms down. Then, it does make sense.

I no longer own within Wyndham (about which I am frankly quite happy), but I can honestly say that I never learned anything useful directly from Wyndham or any Wyndham-prepared materials. For that matter, I never actually had (and have never even seen) a Wyndham "Owner's Manual".

I learned and successfully used the Wyndham system reasonably well, but my "education" came from only two places --- these very TUG Wyndham forums and the excellent material and knowledgeable discussions and materials provided by Wyndham owners on forums.atozed.com. :shrug:
 
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