[2/10/17 UPDATE] VSE charging for 3rd party reservation changes! [+Contact Info. for complaints]

[cubigbird]

So if this fee applies to weeks with VSN membership, what about our resale weeks that aren't enrolled in VSN / Voluntary weeks (like SVR)?? This fee will not apply at all even 8 months out and less?? If so, one more reason keep it out and not retro....

 

[VacationForever]

The ownership does not evaporate with the death of the owner - the estate still owns it after their death. But once the heirs refuse the inheritance, the executer of the estate can notify the management company that the inheritance has been refused and the estate is returning the deed to the resort. You should educate your heirs about what they need to do - now, or better yet, give it away yourself when you no longer want it.

Ah... but I am talking about the unexpected... if things only happen as we plan in life.

 

[DeniseM]

So if this fee applies to weeks with VSN membership, what about our resale weeks that aren't enrolled in VSN / Voluntary weeks (like SVR)?? This fee will not apply at all even 8 months out and less?? If so, one more reason keep it out and not retro....

That's discussed above - it's a home resort reservation - no fee.

The fee applies to Staroption reservations - since you can't make a Staroption reservation with a voluntary week, it doesn't apply.

 

[cubigbird]

I got one for our SDO that isn't in VSN. It says that the fee doesn't apply for that ownership. Well, it actually says:

Dear Owner,

Recently you received an email about the application of a third-party guest fee. Please disregard that email as this fee only applies to members of the Vistana Signature Network.

We apologize for any confusion this may have caused. Please contact Owner Services at 800-847-8262 should you have any additional questions.

Sincerely,

Suzanne Clark
Vice President, Owner Services
Vistana Signature Experiences

I have an SVR voluntary week that's not enrolled in the VSN network. I have not received this email.

 

[dioxide45]

I have an SVR voluntary week that's not enrolled in the VSN network. I have not received this email.

I haven't received an email yet either, we own mandatory resale.

 

[jw0]

I haven't received an email yet either, we own mandatory resale.

I also havent received a second email yet. Since i own SBP, (where i couldnt find the language in the governing docs) I suspect they're trying to figure out a way to stick us with the original fee still.
I guess we'll see...

 

[RLS50]

We purchased resale at WLR, so since it is voluntary, we are not part of the VSN network.

At 6:38pm EST yesterday we received the email for non-network members listed in this thread. Basically it no longer applies to us...

"Recently you received an email about the application of a third-party guest fee. Please disregard that email as this fee only applies to members of the Vistana Signature Network."

Thank you to the many members who wrote emails pointing to the language at multiple resorts that this fee was not allowed.

 

[JudyS]

A supervisor from Vistana called me Friday, as she said she would do. She was very clear that deeded (non-SVN) weeks will not have to pay this charge. The $59 charge applies only to StarOption reservations made outside the home reservation period.

As for the claim that Vistana will not go after people who are renting out StarOption reservations, I wouldn't be so sure. Remember, ILG owns Vistana now. Back when Disney traded in II, there appeared to be a whole II department dedicated to finding rentals of exchanges. I remember TUG members saying that II had called and asked them about the identity of everyone who had received a guest certificate to a DVC resort. I also remember a TUG member who had a week listed on Redweek for rent -- a week that he owned -- and also booked a II exchange (for his own use) for the same resort and dates. II found his listing on Redweek, and threatened to cancel his exchange if he couldn't prove he owned the week. There was also at least one TUG member who had his/her right to book II resorts online revoked. And II threatened that repeat offenders would have their accounts closed and all their deposits confiscated.

Plus, and I'm sure this will be an unpopular view, renting out SO exchanges just isn't fair. People who own at Harborside, WSJ, and the Hawaii Westins are paying a fortunate in MFs. If they choose to rent their weeks - which is their right -- they shouldn't have to compete with VSN owners from cheaper resorts who can charge lower prices. And, when VSN owners try to book VSN exchanges into Harborside, WSJ, or Hawaii, the rooms they want shouldn't be full of renters.

I really don't get why people say its OK to rent out VSN exchanges. Pretty much everyone on TUG says its wrong to rent out II or RCI exchanges. Why should VSN exchanges be any different?

 

[LisaRex]

Plus, and I'm sure this will be an unpopular view, renting out SO exchanges just isn't fair. People who own at Harborside, WSJ, and the Hawaii Westins are paying a fortunate in MFs. If they choose to rent their weeks - which is their right -- they shouldn't have to compete with VSN owners from cheaper resorts who can charge lower prices. And, when VSN owners try to book VSN exchanges into Harborside, WSJ, or Hawaii, the rooms they want shouldn't be full of renters.

FWIW, I agree with you. I used to own at WKORV-N and was very upset when I advertised on Redweek, only to be undercut by folks who were advertising the same place for less than the cost of MFs. It was clear that they'd scored an exchange by using a lower priced SVN resort via II, and were gaming the system to their advantage. It was completely unfair to the owners who paid a lot more $$ to own at that resort, plus signficantly more in MFs to maintain that resort. Simply put: If you want to get into the rental game, buy at the resort you want to rent out and pay the associated MFs. Otherwise, don't expect any sympathy.

 

[Helios]

It's a pure money grab. Totally expected with II. Why is anyone really surprised?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I've wondering that myself...

 

[VacationForever]

I received the first email about the fee but not the 2nd email with the clarification/correction...

 

[purefct1]

That's discussed above - it's a home resort reservation - no fee.

The fee applies to Staroption reservations - since you can't make a Staroption reservation with a voluntary week, it doesn't apply.

So it sounds like my post here and my questions/conclusions are correct:
http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?...ork-and-vistana-signature-experiences.251209/
- The thread was locked without answering my questions, so I'll ask here. What is the difference between Vistana Signature Network and Vistana Signature Experiences? Is it merely the difference between making a reservation at your home resort vs a reservation at a resort which is not a home resort?

This means if we make a reservation:

• in our name at any location, there is no fee (I know this is correct, the reservation would be VSE or VSN depending on where we own and where we reserved?)
• in anyone else's name at any location we own at, there is no fee (I think this is correct, would this be a VSE reservation?)
• in anyone else's name at any location we DON'T own at, there IS a fee (I think this is correct, would this be a VSN reservation?)

I also want to make certain I understand the comment about Voluntary "weeks"
- Wouldn't the correct term be weeks ownership vs points membership, and wouldn't the correct term be Voluntary Resort and not Voluntary weeks? By definition a direct purchase owner at a Voluntary resort has use of Staroptions and can thus make a Staroption reservation - it's the resale purchaser/owner of the Voluntary resort ownership who has use of the week rather than Staroptions.

 

[DeniseM]

I answered your question in the other thread, before I closed it.

You are getting bogged down in the terminology, which does not impact this issue - it's really this simple:

Home Resort Reservation - No Fee
Staroption Reservation - Fee

 

[purefct1]

And I don't see how we've won anything against Vistana. As I understand it, both the original notice and the clarification notice state that there will be a reservation fee for VSN reservations for non owner guests. The wording of the initial notice to VSE owners was confusing to be certain, but it is specific that the 3rd party fee applies to VSN even though I can't see where or how Vistana clarifies the difference.

 

[dioxide45]

What is the difference between Vistana Signature Network and Vistana Signature Experiences? Is it merely the difference between making a reservation at your home resort vs a reservation at a resort which is not a home resort?

Vistana Signature Experiences is the name of the company. Vistana Signature Network is the club that you belong to in order to allow you to make StarOption reservations. For purposes here, SVN is applicable, SVE is not.

in anyone else's name at any location we DON'T own at, there IS a fee (I think this is correct, would this be a VSN reservation?)

If you make a reservation inside of 8 months at a location you do own at, the fee will apply.

 

[DeniseM]

And I don't see how we've won anything against Vistana.

Under the revised rules:

-There is no fee for a home resort reservation Guest Confirmation
-4 & 5 Star Elite Owners get one free guest confirmation for each ownership

So the fee hasn't been eliminated, but it has been limited.

 

[DeniseM]

If you make a reservation inside of 8 months at a location you do own at, the fee will apply.

Yes and No:

Yes - if it's a Staroption reservation.

No - if it's a home resort reservation on a voluntary deed. For instance: I own a deed at SDO with no Staroptions - no guest confirmation fee regardless of when I make the reservation.

From the letter to voluntary owners: Recently you received an email about the application of a third-party guest fee. Please disregard that email as this fee only applies to members of the Vistana Signature Network.

It's really this simple: The fee only applies to Staroption reservations.

 

[tschwa2]

Vistana Signature Experiences is the name of the company. Vistana Signature Network is the club that you belong to in order to allow you to make StarOption reservations. For purposes here, SVN is applicable, SVE is not.


If you make a reservation inside of 8 months at a location you do own at, the fee will apply.

To further elaborate:
VSE is the management company and the developer-which is still in active sales. VSN is the exchange network that retail purchase owners and mandatory resort owners use to exchange using StarOptions. VSE resorts and owners may or may not belong to VSE depending on how you bought and what you own. All of my purchases were resale but I own both Sheraton broadway Plantation which is voluntary and Harborside which is mandatory.

If you belong to VSN than at 8 months or less your usage converts to SO's so even if you book at your home resort you are using StarOptions. If you do not belong to VSN (all the good reservation may be taken but...) you can still book your home resort and since you are not making a SO reservation the fee should not apply.

 

[purefct1]

I think tschwa2 meant to say VSE resorts and owners may or may not belong to VSN ... thanks tschwa2 and dioxide45 for explaining VSE vs VSN

I think one reason I was confused is because we have separate VSE accounts which use the same email address. My ownership is VSE which is not in VSN while my girlfriend's is VSE participating in VSN. So today for example I received a notice to disregard the fee because I'm not in VSN, after receiving a notice to my girlfriend clarifying the VSN fee - and the emails say Dear Owner so I didn't catch on that the two emails were sent to us separately.

And thank you for clarifying that all reservations made 8 months or less will have the fee for guests. I missed that in the notices

 

[DeniseM]

And thank you for clarifying that all reservations made 8 months or less will have the fee for guests. I missed that in the notices

Not correct - please see post #367 above - only Staroption reservations will be charged the fee.

 

[SMHarman]

Bought from Stanwood / Vistana.

Home resort booked 12-8 months. No fee for name change ever. Even if name change at 2 months.

Booked <8 months. Fee for name. Once. Can change the name again as part of original fee

Other resort SVN network booking < 8 months. Fee to pay.

Bought Resale.

Mandatory unit. (Kierland/ WKORV / N, Key West, Bella, Hillside WSJ)

See above, same as buying from developer.

Bought resale elsewhere.

No fee ever.

Bought resale elsewhere and retro.

Same as bought from developer.

4-5* owner

One free per ownership unit. So if 4 units to get you to 5* the 4 free names. No clarity if they are tied to unit or a simple count through the year. Eg if you lock off WKV and rent both sides is that one free and one paid or are they 2/4 free?

Think that covers the use cases

 

[VacationForever]

I really don't get why people say its OK to rent out VSN exchanges. Pretty much everyone on TUG says its wrong to rent out II or RCI exchanges. Why should VSN exchanges be any different?

I do not believe anyone has said it is OK to rent SO bookings. I am questioning whether VSE will enforce it. I have yet to hear about someone getting caught.

 

[DavidnRobin]

I do not believe anyone has said it is OK to rent SO bookings. I am questioning whether VSE will enforce it. I have yet to hear about someone getting caught.

Correct, you or no one else has stated that this means renting non-HomeResort StarOptions is okay - this was only conjecture. Renting these SO types is still prohibited (admittedly hard to enforce) - and IMO - now the associated name change fee is paid by all (if it falls under type that gets the fee - as stated by @DeniseM)

I asked this question (renting SO) - and VSN stance on this has not changed - yet also not considered a major issue in that (stated by them) <5% are rented - not sure if they meant this, or meant <5% have name changes associated with VSN SO reservation. I think the later since it was in context to response to my email about the new fee.

I agree that it hurts Home Ownership if non-HomeResort SO are allowed to be rented - and also hurts them as it may limit their ability to potentially pick up units and rent (or allow for exchange). IMO

 

[DavidnRobin]

Yes and No:

Yes - if it's a Staroption reservation.

No - if it's a home resort reservation on a voluntary deed. For instance: I own a deed at SDO with no Staroptions - no guest confirmation fee regardless of when I make the reservation.


It's really this simple: The fee only applies to Staroption reservations.

How much simpler can it be?

I think people are confused by VSN's role in reservations for VSE, and what is considered a SO reservation? Perhaps in part due to the SO balance decreasing when a HomeResort reservation is made, and VSN Role in reservations for non-VSN Voluntary resorts (including resale).

VSN manages all reservation types for VSE (HomeResort, SO, FO, non-VSN Voluntary, all resales...)

 

[okwiater]

I am reading the underlying implication that VSN is not prohibiting rental to 3rd party guests for SOs reservation

I do not believe anyone has said it is OK to rent SO bookings. I am questioning whether VSE will enforce it. I have yet to hear about someone getting caught.

Correct, you or no one else has stated that this means renting non-HomeResort StarOptions is okay - this was only conjecture.

The confusion started with VacationForever's wording in the original post above. Prohibition and enforcement are quite different... and the original post said "VSN is not prohibiting rental to 3rd party guests for SOs reservations."