Continuing Care Retirement Communities

[taffy19]

I often thought that when Cliff is gone I'd sign up for some sort of medical alert system that would check on me if I didn't check in each day by a certain hour (the CCRC we looked at has a button to push to let them know you woke up that morning). My main issue is having cats that need care if I woke up dead like a family friend did this January--went to bed feeling fine and husband woke up to find she'd died during the night.

You need to put that in your trust or will so they are not let out on the street like some relatives do with cats mainly. Ask your Vet as he may know who to get in touch with.

I read it once in one of the charity organizations. It may have been "Alley Cat Allies" or other ones that we subscribe to. I will try to find it because it makes common sense. This is another reason why we do not want pets anymore because it will be expensive.

PS. I found some information for dogs but will look further if I can find it for cats too because I have read it.

PPS. I quickly looked through a few charity organizations that we are familiar with but cannot find it so quickly. Put the sentence "provide for cats in a will or trust" in Google Search and you will find websites where you can read about it. Even NOLO where you can prepare the document yourself but you have to know a person who is willing to take care of them.

 

[isisdave]

And regarding medical alert systems, if you just want a daily check-in, friends often organize a calling exchange or circle to do this.

If I were living alone at a critical age in a place where I might not expect anyone to check for 24 hours, though, I'd want a wearable alert system. The idea of lying on the floor for a day -- heck, for an hour -- is pretty scary.

 

[lizap]

And regarding medical alert systems, if you just want a daily check-in, friends often organize a calling exchange or circle to do this.

If I were living alone at a critical age in a place where I might not expect anyone to check for 24 hours, though, I'd want a wearable alert system. The idea of lying on the floor for a day -- heck, for an hour -- is pretty scary.

I'm convinced there's no substitute for a family member checking on you in your later years. Unfortunately, millennials don't seem to be so inclined.

 

[WinniWoman]

And Amazon Echo has an "Ask My Buddy" skill where you can set it up to call, text and email people you choose in case of a problem. But you have to be within earshot of the Echo to ask her to do so.

 

[Carol C]

I often thought that when Cliff is gone I'd sign up for some sort of medical alert system that would check on me if I didn't check in each day by a certain hour (the CCRC we looked at has a button to push to let them know you woke up that morning). My main issue is having cats that need care if I woke up dead like a family friend did this January--went to bed feeling fine and husband woke up to find she'd died during the night.

Have to say my wish is to go in my sleep. Death doesn't scare me but a gruesome painful demise is not appealing. I like that you think about your cats so much...I too am a cat lady. My cats would learn first how to open the frig before they'd resort to eating me...I think/hope!

 

[WinniWoman]

Have to say my wish is to go in my sleep. Death doesn't scare me but a gruesome painful demise is not appealing. I like that you think about your cats so much...I too am a cat lady. My cats would learn first how to open the frig before they'd resort to eating me...I think/hope!

Confession: I have a little paper on my night stand with a healing stone on it that says "Let Me Die Before I Wake". Unfortunately, most people do not die this way.

 

[Passepartout]

The vast majority of people, if asked, will say they would prefer to die in their sleep. Professionals who deal with such things call it, "The kiss of an angel". Sadly, only about one person in 6 passes this way. The majority of us will die in some sort of care facility hooked up to hoses, wires and monitors. This is a good reason to make your desires for care known to the person you've designated to ask in your behalf when you are no longer able. This is a Healthcare Power of Attorney, and should be included with your will and General Power of Attorney. Don't keep it a secret and spring it on an unsuspecting child or friend when the need arises.

Time to review those papers you put 'somewhere'.

Jim

 

[VacationForever]

The vast majority of people, if asked, will say they would prefer to die in their sleep. Professionals who deal with such things call it, "The kiss of an angel". Sadly, only about one person in 6 passes this way. The majority of us will die in some sort of care facility hooked up to hoses, wires and monitors. This is a good reason to make your desires for care known to the person you've designated to ask in your behalf when you are no longer able. This is a Healthcare Power of Attorney, and should be included with your will and General Power of Attorney. Don't keep it a secret and spring it on an unsuspecting child or friend when the need arises.

Time to review those papers you put 'somewhere'.

Jim

From my experience, the hospital often discharges a dying patient home when they indicate that "there was nothing they could do for the patient". Hospital beds are expensive and they discharge dying patients home unless the patients (or POAs) want to move into a hospice. Gone are the days where most people die in the hospitals.

 

[rapmarks]

Linda, thanks fir your story. My mother hated the woman we hired, would not close her eyes for a minute. One day she kind if went cuckoo, and dialed 911 and asked if she was dying. Police came to door and we had to take my mom to ER. She never returned home again


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[lizap]

Have to say my wish is to go in my sleep. Death doesn't scare me but a gruesome painful demise is not appealing. I like that you think about your cats so much...I too am a cat lady. My cats would learn first how to open the frig before they'd resort to eating me...I think/hope!

That was my mom's wish too. Unfortunately she went through 2 years of hell before she died.

 

[clifffaith]

A family friend of over 55 years died in her sleep this January. Woke up dead next to her husband. It was a shock to all because she had no medical issues, but we all agreed that at 86 wasn't that a good way to go. We were over at my folks house for lunch today -- I swear Dad is skinnier than he was when we last saw them July 2nd (he was normal to over weight by 30 pounds his entire adult life). That was our discussion on the way home -- it would sure be easier on everyone if he simply didn't wake up one morning. He is obviously wasting away although they can't find anything wrong with him other than he is quite weak and can only walk very short distances with the help of a cane.

So at lunch Mom hands me a flyer that came in their mail in the last few days. I'll be darned if it isn't from the same folks who run the Pleasanton CCRC. In addition to the Capistrano facility, the map shows Thousand Oaks, Fullerton, Carlsbad and San Diego -- all much closer to us than Pleasanton. I've signed us up for lunch at the local country club to hear a formal presentation. We also bought a Kindle book on CCRC's -- can't remember the last time I sat down for four hours and read something cover. I had concerns about what happens if the place doesn't manage its money and goes bankrupt, and the book covered bankruptcies and construction and on going funding issues in great detail.

 

[rapmarks]

My uncle died last week. He was on dialysis and not in the greatest health. His daughter had a new pontoon boat and he wanted to see it. They took him there and there were pictures on Facebook of him enjoying the day and holding the new great grandchild. When they got home he collapsed getting out of the car. My aunt tried cpr but couldn't revive him. He was my mothers baby brother, my mother suffered greatly her last six months and I say it was a great way to go.


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[VacationForever]

Going back to CCRC, I have always been apprehensive of such communities where you have to buy into it and then the owner/resident passes away, the home is sold again at a fraction. Many decades ago, I read about a case where the CCRC was bumping off residents so that the home can be sold again to profit the organization. Obviously I have been influenced/traumatized by that case but that has resulted in my never wanting to buy into such a place.

 

[clifffaith]

The developments we are looking at now have a sliding scale for the return of the entrance fee to the occupants' heirs, the minimum being a 75% return after about 6 or 7 years. I can't see them bumping someone off because they'd have to give the vast majority of the money back!

 

[Blues]

We're just moving my father in law to a retirement community. You have to be fully capable of caring for your self when you move in (except, apparently, the memory wing for Alzheimers patients). But after that, if you need services, they'll bring those services in to the room you're occupying. Their sales pitch is that once you move in, you don't have to move units until you die or go to hospice. It's a brand new facility, so we'll see how it goes.

I'm familiar with those places that charge a large fee upfront, and then refund a fraction. We have several around here, with buy-ins in the hundreds of K. But another selling point of this one is that there's no upfront cost. Just a pretty high monthly cost.

Anyway, it looks great, brand new, and FIL is looking forward to moving in. Always a plus when dealing with the older generation.

 

[clifffaith]

The CCRC book I read mentioned age-in-place communities where you never had to move out of your own unit (unless you really needed hospital type care). The author's comment was that it was great as healthy adults were moving in, but then as everyone started to age, it was hard to interest new healthy adults because they'd see too many health care workers and wheel chairs to want to move in themselves.

 

[VacationForever]

The CCRC book I read mentioned age-in-place communities where you never had to move out of your own unit (unless you really needed hospital type care). The author's comment was that it was great as healthy adults were moving in, but then as everyone started to age, it was hard to interest new healthy adults because they'd see too many health care workers and wheel chairs to want to move in themselves.

Very true. My late mother-in-law moved into one after her companion/sister passed away. She was very depressed seeing how frail the others were and she was one of the more able bodied residents at that time and she knew that she was never going to move to another home again. She refused to join them in trivial group games (ball throwing game in their wheelchairs) and ended up staying in her room most of the time. Not a place I recommend to anyone unless as a last resort. The whole place was depressing, even for us. I am a strong proponent of aging in place/at home.

 

[Blues]

I appreciate the comments, really. And each to their own, I guess. But FIL is about to turn 88, so I don't think we have to worry about what happens 5 or 10 years down the road. But right now, he's really healthy. He does ballroom dancing, rock'n'roll dancing, goes to the gym, and does 2-3 mile walks. He's attended several pre-move-in gatherings that they held at local restaurants. And as an older male who dances, he's already in high demand ;-). Hence the reason he's really looking forward to it. The ratio of eligible females to males is pretty high.

 

[clifffaith]

Our lunch meeting with the CCRC representative was packed on Wednesday. He indicated they usually get 3-5 tables of interested people, they not only had 20 tables full, they also had added an afternoon meeting with the overflow. But being that the closest community is a 90 minute drive from where the meeting was held, I think geography may be a non- starter for many folks. During Q&A someone asked the question I'd wondered about -- can you get in for less money if you give up a portion of the 75% returned to your heirs upon your demise. Answer was yes. Since my high school and a pet rescue operation are my heirs, that may help pave the way to affordability for us. We have pretty much decided we'll do this in about 8 years or so, just not with which community. Cliff happened to send a friend a link to CCRCs in Wikipedia and down at the bottom of that article there were several dozen citations to the original source material that were excellent reading.

 

[WinniWoman]

We visited one in New Hampshire this week while we are on vacation. We "somewhat" liked it. We liked the independent living cottages. The one thing we did not like is they have electric heat. Also- they do not have central air- just window units. And- not a single one had a back-up generator, though it was explained that they are on the same grid as the hospital, so power is restored there first. Needless to say no gas fireplace either.

They had a therapy pool, but- well- its was very much a therapy pool and not a recreational pool- small. They had a gym and supposedly a lot of activities go on there. While we were there it seemed quiet. Didn't t see anyone (residents) walking around or anything like that, except a couple at the apartment building- apartments are out for us.

What I find amazing is that they do not have a schedule for renovations/updates over the years. Let's say you buy in at 68 years old and live for 25 years. Well- when do they come back in and paint? Replace the carpeting/flooring? Change out the kitchen? Etc. Just from owning timeshares I know that there should be some sort of schedule for those kinds of things.

I always get a surprised look when I ask that question at these places. Also- the monthly charges still make me crazy. $1300-$2000 per month. Does not include utilities. Buy in ranges from $100,000+ to close to $300,000 whether or not you just want the cottages with no access to the CC part or want the whole package. With that, if you run out of money you still get to live there forever- the cottage or the nursing home or whatever.

Well- we would be sure to run out of money with those fees! LOL!

My husband says we should just look at one level small homes in a regular community. We don't like being tied in to HOA fees if we can help it. We could always hire a handy man on an as needed basis. Try to make sure we are near medical services.

 

[bogey21]

This is something I really know something about as I live in a CCRC. The one I live in is Trinity Terrace in Fort Worth, TX. Trinity Terrace is managed by Pacific Retirement Services, Medford, OR. Pacific Retirement Services manages something like 20 CCRCs most of which are on the West Coast.

When I moved into my one bedroom apartment in Trinity Terrace in 2000 the nonrefundable front end fee was $65,000 and my monthly fee was roughly $1,600. Today my monthly fee is roughly $2,500. Trinity Terrace has now added two new towers with larger units with partly refundable front end fees ranging somewhere between $700,000 and $1,000,000. I don't know how much the monthly fees for these units are other than that they are high. The amount of the front end fee depends on how much (70%, 80% or 90%) is refunded to your heirs when you die.

The monthly fees although large cover everything;i.e meals, utilities, cleaning, laundry, etc. Also note that somewhere between 30% and 50% of your month end fee is tax deductible as prepaid medical expenses. The percentage has something to do with the ratio of expenses for the Extended Care Facility (total care) and the total expenses of the entire operation.

There are 3 levels of care at Trinity Terrace, Independent Living, Extended Living and one somewhere in between for those who need help with daily functions but not so much help as to require moving in the Extended Care facility.

My status is Independent Living which means I come and go whenever I want. When I leave the facility say to spend a week at my Son's house or a month in Florida all I do is let them know I will be gone.

The food is fabulous, activities are numerous; there is a fitness facility and pool on site; transportation for Doctor visits, etc is provided. In addition there is also a Library and Computer Room.

The nice thing about my contract which I signed in 2000 is that if I run out of money in the normal course of events; i.e. I didn't squander it stupidly, Trinity Terrace is contractually obligated to cover all or part of my monthly fees.

You can probably tell from the above that I am 150% sold on the CCRC concept. In my opinion it is far superior to Long Term Care Insurance and a nursing home when needed.

George

 

[rapmarks]

I remember taking my mother in law to various communities. She had Alzheimer's and thought that we were looking and bringing her along for her opinion. She only liked one place, where she saw people gathering after lunch, and she thought it was nice. Step son would not allow her to go there, it wasn't good enough. Moved her to a fancy place. She hated it and kept calling for a taxi to take her home. Plus she could not figure out how to work the elevator. She moved out in two weeks, and it cost her four thousand dollars. Finally moved to a small home that had five residents. She wanted to go home but gradually came to believe it was her home, and she had several guests. She was always waiting for her deceased husband to come home, he was out looking for a new home. I always felt she would have been better off in the place she liked best.


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[clifffaith]

George, thanks so much for posting. But you've burst our bubble! Part of our research is to consider moving out of California where high real estate prices are part of the reason for the high entrance fees. I'd gave to hog tie Cliff to move him back to Texas where he spent the first 20 years of his life, but the entrance fee at your new towers is what we are seeing here, so no danger of a move there, I guess.

The tax deductible pre-paid medical expenses hadn't sunk in with me yet, although I now recall that was part of the answer to someone asking if the CCRC counted toward the $500K per couple that can be taken out of your home sale without incurring capital gains. The CCRC would not count as a new home purchase exempt from capital gains.

 

[rapmarks]

George, thanks so much for posting. But you've burst our bubble! Part of our research is to consider moving out of California where high real estate prices are part of the reason for the high entrance fees. I'd gave to hog tie Cliff to move him back to Texas where he spent the first 20 years of his life, but the entrance fee at your new towers is what we are seeing here, so no danger of a move there, I guess.

The tax deductible pre-paid medical expenses hadn't sunk in with me yet, although I now recall that was part of the answer to someone asking if the CCRC counted toward the $500K per couple that can be taken out of your home sale without incurring capital gains. The CCRC would not count as a new home purchase exempt from capital gains.

I am not sure if you are expecting gains on the CCRC In The future, but don't forget the 500k is above and beyond your cost basis. Since you are in California you may have a profit like that, but it is only the amount above the 500k profit that is taxed as capital gains.


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[clifffaith]

No profit here since we are on our sixth home in 30 years (last four within a ten minute drive from each other). But lots of folks at our lunch meeting have been in their homes 40+ years. Their homes went from $60-$100K when they bought to 1.5 to 2 million in that time.