[2017] Just Joined Marriott Vacation Club - Was it a good choice?

[bazzap]

Absolutely, Greg. I think we have a lot of folks comparing apples to oranges in this thread. You really can't compare renting weeks from owners and traditional weeks ownership to points ownership - they are different products with different advantages and disadvantages. Owner rentals and resale weeks are cheaper, but you can't accomplish the same things as easy as you can with points (short stays, cancellation flexibility, the ability to book a variety of unit sizes or views to fit your needs, etc).

So, if owner rentals or weeks ownership meets someone's needs, then that someone would be foolish to buy points. But if owner rentals do not meet their needs and if weeks ownership doesn't meet their needs, but points do, then I don't think it's a bad move (or a boondoggle as someone called it) to buy points (as long as they can afford it).

I also find it interesting that the voices most critical of the OP and most critical of buying points are folks who don't own points. It seems, most of the people in this thread who actually use their points seem to think they work pretty well. Of course, if I had a bunch of pre-2010 enrolled weeks that gave me a lot of points, I wouldn't have much of an appetite for buying Trust points, but for those of us who weren't part of the pre-2010 party, finding a way to buy into points as reasonably as possible becomes the only viable path to being able to play in points.

Picking up on your analogy, I guess those of us who have a bowl of mixed fruit from owning a bunch of pre deadline enrolled weeks are able to benefit from both the apples and pears of weeks and points, each of which have their own advantages and disadvantages.
I might like to say that this was through sound planning, but to be honest it was really just luck in having unknowingly made the right decisions at the right time.
Not everything worked out perfectly though, as we had bought and then later enrolled a couple of Caribbean weeks which receive very disappointing points allocation.
If only we could have had hindsight on all our decisions.

 

[MOXJO7282]

Yes but you are offering an alternative of buying a specific location. What about the next year? Exchanging into another extremely high value location and week is not an option. The OP may very well go after a resale week once they find something they really like.

For shoulder season you can buy cheapo resale weeks and exchange in II. I do it all the time and you usually don't need the Marriott preference to do it. Where I see the value of DC is short stays, shoulder or prime, and the prime weeks at high end where it's not where you want to go every year.

Yes but you are offering an alternative of buying a specific location. What about the next year? Exchanging into another extremely high value location and week is not an option. The OP may very well go after a resale week once they find something they really like.

For shoulder season you can buy cheapo resale weeks and exchange in II. I do it all the time and you usually don't need the Marriott preference to do it. Where I see the value of DC is short stays, shoulder or prime, and the prime weeks at high end where it's not where you want to go every year.

I know people probably hate hearing my spiel by now but for $50k he could've bought, A Maui 2BD OF for $22k, 1 Newport for $8k, Mountainside - $16k for $46k total and used a reputable rental firm to pull in profit if he doesn't want the minimal hassle of doing it himself while using the week he wants or renting all three. He can then rent anything on his long list of possible places he'd like to go to with the big profit he made from his 3 weeks and have money in his pocket.


Your other point even confirms more to me that DC has limited value IMHO because that is exactly what I do for great HHI shoulder weeks.

Lastly, part of what I do professionally is manage risk for my company. God forbid the OPs financial situation changes having all those points is a huge risk whereas the 3 resale weeks is minimal risk because if you got even a fair resale deal you won't lose your shirt if you have to liquidate.

This is my last comment on the matter, I apologize if I offended anyone with my comments but I do feel strongly about my approach because it's been so wildly successful for us without much difficulty at all and I offer it to others in case they thought about the possibility and it makes sense to them but I can get overzealous so I'll end here until the next new OP asked the question so at the very least I can offer an alternative they can consider or dismiss as crazy.

 

[Hi I'm new here]

Since there are recent notes suggesting the OP lower expectations- I will add one more item. . He wants to use points at Disney World. I've not stayed in any Marriott there but Disney pros want to be in monorail accessible lodging. You want to be able to zoom in and out of the parks, going back to the hotel or condo for breaks, then returning for more "fun". You don't need a rental car as Disney lodging includes free rides on the airport Magic bus, monorail, bus system. Disney lodging guests get early admission most days which is wonderful to beat the crowds. Other benefits as well including early fast pass and dinner booking.

The Marriott TS are off property, you will need a rental car and the location is not convenient to come and go from the parks. Little kids lose patience quickly and ours often begged to go back to the lodging pool to swim.
For the record I'm not in the Disney cult, not in the DVC cult either. We made the obligatory trips to see Mickey with our kids and now have tiny grandchildren to take.

 

[Boom-chaka]

New member here - my wife and I just returned from the MVC sales pitch at Grande Vista in Orlando.

Honestly, either this is a total scam, or I missed some critical information...what are your thoughts?

The ROI on the "entry-level" 2,000 points package is pretty abysmal: 7 years if you travel to mid-grade resort locations for >20 days / year, assuming that you take out a 5% or better loan (or pay cash, obviously). It would take 19 years to break even if this is bought using a Marriott line of credit (currently at 19% for 800 FICO score) and you book a resort for 10 days per year. In my experience, longer term loans at higher rates (15-22%) are the norm.

How can people afford the travel required to make this worthwhile when their assets are so leveraged they need to use high-interest loans?

Here's my diatribe on the topic, if you care to read / reply:

http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?...club-return-on-investment-in-19-years.251778/

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Since there are recent notes suggesting the OP lower expectations- I will add one more item. . He wants to use points at Disney World. I've not stayed in any Marriott there but Disney pros want to be in monorail accessible lodging. You want to be able to zoom in and out of the parks, going back to the hotel or condo for breaks, then returning for more "fun". You don't need a rental car as Disney lodging includes free rides on the airport Magic bus, monorail, bus system. Disney lodging guests get early admission most days which is wonderful to beat the crowds. Other benefits as well including early fast pass and dinner booking.

The Marriott TS are off property, you will need a rental car and the location is not convenient to come and go from the parks. Little kids lose patience quickly and ours often begged to go back to the lodging pool to swim.
For the record I'm not in the Disney cult, not in the DVC cult either. We made the obligatory trips to see Mickey with our kids and now have tiny grandchildren to take.

I'll take a rental car and stay at the Marriott's any day. That or just pay cash for the Disney resort.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

New member here - my wife and I just returned from the MVC sales pitch at Grande Vista in Orlando.

Honestly, either this is a total scam, or I missed some critical information...what are your thoughts?

The ROI on the "entry-level" 2,000 points package is pretty abysmal: 7 years if you travel to mid-grade resort locations for >20 days / year, assuming that you take out a 5% or better loan (or pay cash, obviously). It would take 19 years to break even if this is bought using a Marriott line of credit (currently at 19% for 800 FICO score) and you book a resort for 10 days per year. In my experience, longer term loans at higher rates (15-22%) are the norm.

How can people afford the travel required to make this worthwhile when their assets are so leveraged they need to use high-interest loans?

Here's my diatribe on the topic, if you care to read / reply:

http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?...club-return-on-investment-in-19-years.251778/

If you have to finance to make the purchase you simply don't do it. It's either cash or you finance for incentives and pay off after the required period. Nobody without the cash has any business buying a timeshare.

2,000 points won't get you squat. You need a hybrid package but any hybrid package with ~4,000 points total is probably not a good deal. You have to go in deeper and get a good week. It gets very expensive but again, no cash?, then just say no.

The interest rate is not a scam. It's an extremely high risk loan. If you want a better rate and you really want to buy and finance then you go get a HELOC or other low interest loan and finance it that way. I am not actually suggesting that but it only reiterates the point that if someone buying can get cheap money they have no business buying the package.

 

[BocaBoy]

The Marriott TS are off property, you will need a rental car and the location is not convenient to come and go from the parks. Little kids lose patience quickly and ours often begged to go back to the lodging pool to swim.
For the record I'm not in the Disney cult, not in the DVC cult either. We made the obligatory trips to see Mickey with our kids and now have tiny grandchildren to take.

Again, another post that denies important facts. Do you even know where the Marriott Orlando timeshares are located, especially the three on the Marriott World Center property? Have you ever stayed at Sabal Palms and gone to Disney? It is almost like going to the corner grocery store it is so close, maybe 5 minutes away. Also, last time I checked the World Center had a shuttle to take you to and from the Disney parks if you preferred that. Not free and not as convenient as the monorail, but quite a viable option.

 

[Boom-chaka]

I see...so financing a timeshare is NOT the norm?

People are dropping $28K in year one?

Excluding interest on a loan, the current return on investment for buying 2,000 points:

• 12 years, compared to staying for 10 days per year @ $300 / day
• 7 years, compared to staying for 15 days per year @ $300 / day
• 5 years, compared to staying for 20 days / yr @ $300 / day

 

[Boom-chaka]

...last time I checked the World Center had a shuttle to take you to and from the Disney parks if you preferred that. Not free and not as convenient as the monorail, but quite a viable option.

Very true.

Last November, I stayed in the Marriott World Center in Orlando for $300 / night. It's also a conference center so there is tons of mixed traffic.

They have a free, hourly bus to all the Disney properties. Magic Kingdom is ~20 min from MWC vs ~25 min from the Grande Vista.

 

[dioxide45]

I see...so financing a timeshare is NOT the norm?

Actuall, more buyers finance than not. According to this thread, 56% of all purchasers finance.

 

[Boom-chaka]

Actuall, more buyers finance than not. According to this thread, 56% of all purchasers finance.

Here's that quote from your link to verbiage from Marriott's 2017 10-K:

"In our North America segment in 2016, approximately 59 percent of Marriott Vacation Club customers financed their purchase with us. The average loan for our Marriott Vacation Club products totaled approximately $23,400 , which represented 86 percent of the average purchase price"​

There are at least a couple ways to interpret that:

• 59% of customers used some form of financing, 41% paid cash
• 59% of customers used Marriott financing (current rate is 19% for an 800 FICO score), 41% paid cash or some other form of financing (e.g. HELOC, AmEx, etc.)

At 19% for Marriott financing, the Total Cost of Ownership is $70,900 for 2,000 points, annual service fees, enrollment fees and 10 years of compounded interest on a $26,500 principal.

That total cost is roughly equal to renting a $300/day* property for:
20 days per year for 10 years
15 days per year for 13 years
10 days per year for 19 years

* = includes 3% rate increase year-to-year

 

[BocaBoy]

At 19% for Marriott financing, the Total Cost of Ownership is $70,900 for 2,000 points, annual service fees, enrollment fees and 10 years of compounded interest on a $26,500 principal.

That total cost is roughly equal to renting a $300/day* property for:
20 days per year for 10 years
15 days per year for 13 years
10 days per year for 19 years

* = includes 3% rate increase year-to-year

I would personally never advise someone to finance their purchase of a timeshare, but putting it on the Marriott credit card for the points and paying it off by the first payment due date is really a more lucrative way of paying cash. The 19% rate is if you leave the balance on the credit card. If you take a Marriott loan to finance it, the rate is more like 11-12%, still a horrible deal but not 19%. I think it is important to be accurate when doing an analysis such as yours. Few if anyone here on TUG would advise financing your timeshare purchase.

 

[Hi I'm new here]

I'm pretty sure banks will not finance TS as there is little to no resale value. Not to mention TS come with sizable annual liabilities in the form of maintenance fees. Therefore Marriott financing was born. The default rate on TS loans was very high during the recession. People also default or walk away from maintenance fees and the unit will be foreclosed.

 

[Boom-chaka]

If you take a Marriott loan to finance it, the rate is more like 11-12%, still a horrible deal but not 19%. I think it is important to be accurate when doing an analysis such as yours. Few if anyone here on TUG would advise financing your timeshare purchase.

Thanks! Good info...revised accordingly. It's not "$70K over 10 yrs", it's actually $60,700

2,000 point TCO = $60,700

Assumes:

• 11% APR financing (10 year term)
• $1,060 / yr fees (doesn't account for ~3% annual fee increase)
• $700 processing fee

 

[Boom-chaka]

Is it me, or does this market seems poised for a correction?

• high upfront cost
• high / increasing recurring cost for "points" (token economy)
• corporate control of points value
• uncapped, perpetual membership fees
• high total cost of ownership
• corporate focus on pushing financing
• poor value proposition for new owners vs other lodging options
• robust secondary markets for reselling / trading weeks
• missing a payment results in default / forfeiture

Reminds me a lot of the Cab model...hack licenses used to cost as much as a house and were considered a solid financial play with predictable value.

The hack license owners never predicted Uber and Lyft

Same with Bed & Breakfasts and hotels/motels...they used to be a solid play, then along came AirBnB

What could flip this market on its head?

 

[Saintsfanfl]

I'm pretty sure banks will not finance TS as there is little to no resale value. Not to mention TS come with sizable annual liabilities in the form of maintenance fees. Therefore Marriott financing was born. The default rate on TS loans was very high during the recession. People also default or walk away from maintenance fees and the unit will be foreclosed.

You don't need the bank to finance the timeshare specifically. What you need is borrowing capacity at low interest rates. That's why I suggested the HELOC if you had to do it and didn't have the cash.

Banks actually do finance timeshares. That's who is usually holding the mortgages. Either up front or they are sold sometime after the sale at a discount. They are high risk but the interest rates are attractive combined with the discount. Think about it. What's the resale value on a credit card? Zero with very little recourse. It doesn't stop banks from handing out credit limits like candy.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Very true.

Last November, I stayed in the Marriott World Center in Orlando for $300 / night. It's also a conference center so there is tons of mixed traffic.

They have a free, hourly bus to all the Disney properties. Magic Kingdom is ~20 min from MWC vs ~25 min from the Grande Vista.

Those are bus times. It's at least 5 minutes shorter if driving.

MK is the furthest from MWC and still only 10-15 minutes in a car. Epcot is right across the highway.

 

[JIMinNC]

Is it me, or does this market seems poised for a correction?

• high upfront cost
• high / increasing recurring cost for "points" (token economy)
• corporate control of points value
• uncapped, perpetual membership fees
• high total cost of ownership
• corporate focus on pushing financing
• poor value proposition for new owners vs other lodging options
• robust secondary markets for reselling / trading weeks
• missing a payment results in default / forfeiture

Reminds me a lot of the Cab model...hack licenses used to cost as much as a house and were considered a solid financial play with predictable value.

The hack license owners never predicted Uber and Lyft

Same with Bed & Breakfasts and hotels/motels...they used to be a solid play, then along came AirBnB

What could flip this market on its head?

I've bolded a couple of points from your post in the quote above.

1.) Read this thread and you will see that for some, it is not a poor value proposition. For folks who can make rentals from private owners work for them and/or traditional resale weeks ownership work for them, the points model probably doesn't work. But the vast majority of people in the world don't do owner rentals, AirBNB, etc., they book online through regular hotel reservation sites. For many folks who value the flexibility, cancellation rights, etc. of traditional hotel-style booking, the points model is not a bad one.

2.) There is not a robust secondary market for reselling weeks. If there were, developers would not be able to sell weeks (those who still sell weeks) or points for prices vastly higher than the resale market price. That is the problem in timeshare - there is no equivalent to the organized, managed resale market for regular real estate, which is made possible by a network of realtors and the Multiple Listing Service. Most potential buyers do not know about the timeshare resale market, and for those that do, it is a maze of small brokers, individual sellers, and a hodgepodge of places to go to try to find what you are looking for. As a result, for most people, the developer price is the only way they know to buy timeshare, and the lower prices offered at resale do not represent a major threat for the developer prices. Marriott even references the disorganized resale market in the "risk factors" they are required by law to disclose in their annual 10-K:

...if the secondary market for vacation ownership interests becomes more organized and liquid than it currently is, the resulting availability of vacation ownership interests (particularly where the vacation ownership interests are available for sale at lower prices than the prices at which we would sell them) could adversely affect our sales and our sales revenues...
...Development of a viable secondary market may also cause the volume of vacation ownership interests inventory that we are able to repurchase to decline, which could adversely impact our development margin, as we utilize this lower cost inventory source to supplement our inventory needs and help manage our cost of vacation ownership products.

3.) There is also not a terribly organized market for timeshare owners to rent their weeks. The average guy on the street has never heard of redweek.com. They may have heard of VRBO, but there timeshares compete with houses, whole owner condos, etc. Many of the people who try to book timeshares on VRBO don't understand the owner is trying to rent a specific week and often ask the owner for different weeks thinking it's a whole owner renting their wholly-owned condo.

The developer sales model succeeds because timeshares are sold by the developer. They are not usually sought out by a potential buyer and bought because the customer has a specific need. Most people learn about timeshare via an incentive travel package to a timeshare resort that includes a required sales presentation, or other incentive-based inducements to attend a sales presentation. Unlike the OP in this thread, most potential purchasers base their purchase decision only on what they are told in that sales presentation, not on a more in-depth analysis where they educate themselves (as the OP did).

So what could flip the market on its head? Another major recession/depression or the emergence of a viable secondary market. But, if the secondary market did strengthen, that would probably raise resale prices as well as lower developer prices. They would likely meet somewhere in the middle.

 

[BocaBoy]

Banks actually do finance timeshares. That's who is usually holding the mortgages. Either up front or they are sold sometime after the sale at a discount. They are high risk but the interest rates are attractive combined with the discount.

Banks, insurance companies and other financial companies buy a lot of these mortgages from the developers who originate them, usually in a package of mortgages bundled together. The borrowers are usually rather good credit risks, so while there are defaults it is usually not because of inability to pay. The holders of these mortgages are not really relying much on the timeshares as collateral because they can normally go after the borrower personally if he/she defaults.

 

[catharsis]

Here's that quote from your link to verbiage from Marriott's 2017 10-K:

" (current rate is 19% for an 800 FICO score), 41% paid cash or some other form of financing (e.g. HELOC, AmEx, etc.)
[/LIST]
At 19% for Marriott financing, the Total Cost of Ownership is $70,900 for 2,000 points​

I did point out in another thread that the MVC financing is not at 19℅ ... That is the rate on a credit card offered by (some bank) upon which Marriott Rewards Points can be earned for purchases from Marriott (sometimes amounting up to close to 10℅ rebate)
For accuracy neither the card issuer (bank) nor the card affiliation (Marriott hotels) have any connection with MVC.


Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

​

 

[catharsis]

I think the genuinely disturbing issue is why developer point prices continue to rise while the rofr price of points (which is a measurement of MVCs own assessment of the value of points) continues to fall.

This to me is they key issue which makes MVC as a sales organisation indefensible. They are *knowingly* generating a false trend and training their staff to use that deliberately manipulated trend to people who come into presentations. This continued divergence is where the ethical line has been crossed for me and I believe the MVC sales organisation are 'bad hombres' (to misquote something I heard somewhere).....

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[GoldenVIKE]

Here's my point because I know Maui so well and did really want to be on the DC bandwagon but the value was just not even close. OP mentions the desire for Maui 2BD OF in Feb. That would cost him 8650 DC points for just one week. How much does that translate in MFs costs and overall costs when you factor in huge initial outlay? I just bought a 2BDRM OF float in new towers for $19300 all-in. That is a huge value gap to justify.

OK so that is just Maui, let me look at the other one OP mentions because I'm pretty sure it would take even more points. Well actually Marriott doesn't have a Park City so looking at Marriott's Mountainside which I think is Marriott's top ski resort for a Christmas week it is 8000.

I won't provide any more example but I know when I recently investigated I saw for all the places we liked which I think most would consider high-end, Maui, Newport Beach, Grande Ocean and the value gap was huge. Where i saw some fair value in the DC was going to these locations during shoulder season where you could get more than a week, or sometimes 3 or 4 weeks. That is not what the OP is suggesting he wants to do and therefore he is very much like me and for me the DC comes up way short and I was just articulating that.

For those that do like the DC and think it's a good value, do you go for shoulder season multi-weeks or use all for a prime week at a high end location?

My hunch is the former.

The quote your mentioning about Maui and Park City was a hypothetical quote by another poster, saying that IF I HAD SAID THAT, then it would have been clear I was disillusioned. I never said anything about those places. I expect that nobody nowhere is guaranteed anything unless you own a fixed week, fixed unit, or own a vacation condo outright.

 

[GoldenVIKE]

All,

I think one of the things that this thread has highlighted is that there is no inexpensive way to access the Marriott point system (other than as Quilter has advised -- find a CC friend ). We TUGgers are conditioned to the value of buying resale (which is real), which holds true with Marriott weeks and with other timeshare point systems like Starwood and HGVC.

But the reality is that Marriott has closed the ability to buy into their point system inexpensively. If the new visitor want to play in points with Marriott, there isn't a cheap option available to them. We can talk all we like about the value of existing resale weeks, benefits of renting from others, the premium cost associated with pure points from Marriott, and that there are cheaper point systems available resale (like Starwood and HGVC). But we really don't have the "rescind and buy (points) resale" advice available to us that was applicable for years to the person buying weeks. This is not an accidental design by Marriott.

All we can do is explain to the new visitor what their options are, which is more something along the lines of either 1) rescind and give up on being in Marriott's system or 2) convert the package to a hybrid. Even buying 8,000 points resale for the OP would probably cost him $45K and he would have higher MFs. It's an interesting situation.

Thoughts?

Best,

Greg

Greg, this is right.

Basically, a good resale deal will always have better upfront costs than a hybrid deal, but a good hybrid deal is always going to pass the resale eventually in terms of long-term value. At $3-$4/pt resale, that time horizon is usually 10-15 years depending on where you peg the booking value of a point. Even at $2.50/pt resale (an unrealistic number), the hybrid deal (at least the one we did) will catch up in 20-25 years. We were told (by a broker, not MVCI) that less than 5% of resales go for $3.25 or less (and pass ROFR), and that $3.50-$4.00 is much more common. And also told that we were likely to get ROFR'd by Marriott 6-7 times simply because we had recently been on a presentation. So for us it was a no-brainer to just do the hybrid. THAT SAID, if you want to get into MVCI and you HAVENT been on a presentation, you stand a better chance at getting a $3.25 (maybe lower even?) bid through ROFR. If I had a magic wand and could go back and do a resale at $3.25 (or less) I'd consider it just to have the simplicity of one closing instead of two. That $3.25 deal vs. my deal is going to be even money after 12.5 years. And after 30 years my deal will be $8,500 better from overall cash flow. (netting out increasing MFs & increasing booking value of a point over time) That's based on me valuing a point at $1.25; but it doesnt matter that much the math is similar at different point values. So generally, yes if I had to give blanket advice to future MVCI newcomers, I'd probably boil it down to:

1) if you want 7,000 points or more, go hybrid (the hybrid week deals are better the larger you go)
2) if you want less than that, try resale prior to going on a presentation

 

[GoldenVIKE]

I think the genuinely disturbing issue is why developer point prices continue to rise while the rofr price of points (which is a measurement of MVCs own assessment of the value of points) continues to fall.

This to me is they key issue which makes MVC as a sales organisation indefensible. They are *knowingly* generating a false trend and training their staff to use that deliberately manipulated trend to people who come into presentations. This continued divergence is where the ethical line has been crossed for me and I believe the MVC sales organisation are 'bad hombres' (to misquote something I heard somewhere).....

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Here's a quick rundown of falsehoods I was told at the presentation. I initially let these slide as accidental, but given the volume of them and the fact that they all tend to the same direction, maybe that was generous...

- at 4,000 points you get special access to Ritz-Carlton that <4,000 pt members dont get
- at 4,000 points you get access to luxury homes (even went into the fact that there are 30 homes on St Thomas and 55 on St John)
- you get a 13 month booking window (forgot to mention this only applies to 7 night stays, which we specifically said we didn't want to be locked into)
- that the value of point has risen from $10-ish to $13-ish since 2010 and is projected to keep rising (a partial truth, but doesn't account for steep discounts)
- that the economic booking value of a point is about $2.00 (again, in some rare cases perhaps, but this is an overly rosy picture)
- that all owners get the same deal because MVCI wants to make sure that nobody feels they got a worse deal than the person staying in the next room, so resale vs. direct is not much different
- that a hybrid package has major drawbacks and "doesnt make sense for you, you're points people, bro" to quote the MVCI sales manager that i intially inquired with about the hybrid and was turned down

...I get this is probably a really tough industry to be a salesperson in, but the sales culture of the TS industry is rotten.

 

[GoldenVIKE]

New member here - my wife and I just returned from the MVC sales pitch at Grande Vista in Orlando.

Honestly, either this is a total scam, or I missed some critical information...what are your thoughts?

The ROI on the "entry-level" 2,000 points package is pretty abysmal: 7 years if you travel to mid-grade resort locations for >20 days / year, assuming that you take out a 5% or better loan (or pay cash, obviously). It would take 19 years to break even if this is bought using a Marriott line of credit (currently at 19% for 800 FICO score) and you book a resort for 10 days per year. In my experience, longer term loans at higher rates (15-22%) are the norm.

How can people afford the travel required to make this worthwhile when their assets are so leveraged they need to use high-interest loans?

Here's my diatribe on the topic, if you care to read / reply:

http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?...club-return-on-investment-in-19-years.251778/

I agree with the others that if you need to finance, don't do this. Not only is it bad personal finance, but it kills any financial justification to do TS in the first place. Just book on Marriott.com as an alternative (if you value ease of booking like I do), or rent weeks from other owners on Redweed, HomeAway, VRBO, etc (as others do, and save a bunch of money)

FYI I'm not sure what lies they're telling you, but our interest rate was 8.99% w/ credit score >800. I believe that's a 10-yr loan but we'll definitely pay it off after 18 months. We don't need the loan (just doing it for the extra perks thrown in for financing), and wouldn't be purchasing a TS if we did need to finance.