Anyone own HGVC and Marriott?

[hurnik]

Just wondering if anyone out there has both, and could maybe explain the similarities/differences (key things).

I'm seriously contemplating getting rid of a few of my HGVC and adding Marriott instead to try to get better availability for Carribean/etc. where HGVC does not have (unless you exchange via RCI which seems iffy at best lately).

I'll try to educate myself about Marriott over on the Marriott forums.

 

[alwysonvac]

There are several members who own Marriott and HGVC.

Keep in mind that exchanging in general can be a crap shoot. Flexibility is key.

If you're try to travel to high demand resorts during peak seasons then you're going to have challenges. Most families with school aged children are traveling when the kids are out of school which means more competition. These families are also looking for two bedroom units or larger during this timeframe. There are also the retired folks trying to escape the cold winter season, so there will be competition at warm sunny destinations during the 1st quarter of the year.

Where are you trying to go and when?
What size unit do you typically look for?
How far advance are you looking?
Are you setting up ongoing searches with RCI WEEKS resorts well in advance and looking for online availability at the 10 month mark for RCI POINTS resorts?
Have you watched the TUG Sighting forum for RCI availability?

 

[tompalm]

I thought HGVC had a huge advantage with flexibility and being able to trade for a studio, one bedroom, or two bedroom and reserving for three days to three weeks or longer. Where Marriott is on a weekly basis. If this is still true, I would dump Marriott and go with HGVC just to get more flexibility.

 

[ljmiii]

I've owned both HGVC and MVCI for about a decade now. But in 2010 MVCI changed over to selling primarily destination points instead of weeks which has had all sorts of different effects on existing owners. But as a potential new owner you have three options...

1) Buy destination points (DPs...occasionally aka Vacation Points) directly from MVCI or on the resale market. DPs are flexible like HGVC points though there are constant complaints about availability at high demand resorts (e.g. Maui) at peak times. My impression is that the Marriott Aruba resorts are in that 'high demand' category. MVCI's current price is a little over $13/pt but you can often get discounts/incentives that reduce that down to around $10/pt. If you buy resale the going price is around $4.75-$5.00/pt but you'll have to pay Marriott an additional $2/pt plus various and sundry fees.

2) Buy a week in the resale market - ideally at the resort at which you want to vacation. MVCI weeks sold resale may continue to be used as 'weeks' - you can use them, rent them, or trade them in II - but they may not be 'enrolled' to be 'elected' to be used as DPs. As a potential buyer the positive side is that with the exception of a few truly prime resorts (e.g. Maui and Marco Island) MVCI resale prices have plummeted. But as more MVCI weeks are enrolled, trading inventory via II for Marriott resorts has decreased.

3) Buy a 'hybrid' or 'bundled' package from MVCI where you buy a 'direct resale' week from them and they enroll that week so long as you buy an equal or greater number of DPs as well. The prices MVCI asks for the weeks they have in inventory range from reasonable to outrageous but buying a 'bundled' week - particularly if it to a resort you want to visit - can be a good option. I know that the 'corporate' MVCI resale department which you can see online doesn't do RTU weeks (which Aruba is). But I also know that in Boston people have been offered a bundle Custom House package...even though that property is RTU. So I don't know if somehow you might be offered an Aruba bundle IN Aruba.

All that said...there is some Marriott resort you like in the Caribbean and you know you want to go there at least every other year...buy it. But I'm not sure I would be DPs to try to get into the Caribbean every year (unless you know you are willing to travel off-season).

 

[dougp26364]

I thought HGVC had a huge advantage with flexibility and being able to trade for a studio, one bedroom, or two bedroom and reserving for three days to three weeks or longer. Where Marriott is on a weekly basis. If this is still true, I would dump Marriott and go with HGVC just to get more flexibility.

It sort of depends. MVC came out with their own brand of points based reservations, and it has some advantages over HGVC and some disadvantages. One big advantage MVC has is the ability to make one night reservations using points. One disadvantage is when converting a deeded week into points, there's a "skim" where the points you receive for your week are not necessarily equal to the number of points it would take to reserve that same week. However, MVC's club membership covers all fee's where HGVC charges ala carte fee's to do anything other than use your home week.

Honestly they are both very different systems and can be difficult to compare. It just depends on what your individual needs might be.

MVC is considerably more expensive then HGVC as far as MF's are concerned.

MVC's points based exchange system has more flexibility than HGVC IMHO (MVC can book as little as 1 night, can book any resort 12 months out or, 13 months in advance if you own enough weeks/points)

HGVC's points reservations are a little more rigid, making it more "economical" (if you will) to book a reservation. MVC's points are very dynamic with regards to high points requirements for high demand dates (no real seasons) than HGVC.

HGVC's online system allows for easier searching for available weeks. MVC's system tends to be laborious to use IMHO when "shopping" for vacations.

MVC has a greater number of desirable locations, especially in Hawaii or the Caribbean.

MVC does NOT treat resale owners the same as developer purchased weeks when it comes to their points based exchange system. Resale buyers of weeks are essentially excluded from putting their weeks into the points system and resale points purchasers have some significant restrictions on usage. I would NEVER consider buying resale MVC points due to the restrictions on usage and, I would NEVER buy points directly from MVC because they have very little value on the resale market plus, they're WAY to expensive.

In short, we own HGVC for their availability in Las Vegas, Oahu and the Big Island. We really aren't as enthralled with Oahu anymore so that's become a non-starter for us. We have a reservation for the Big Island and we'll see how we feel about that in a couple of months. We really enjoy Elera and it has become our favorite timeshare location in Las Vegas, even though we own a 3 bedroom unit at MVC's Grand Chateau. We really enjoy MVC's variety of locations and absolutely love our home resort of Ocean Pointe, where we return every year. Our MVC Grand Chateau 3 bedroom ownership was originally purchased to use the 2 bedroom side and exchange the 1 bed room suite. Then HGVC went and acquired Elera and now the Grand Chateau either gets exchanged for MVC points or straight weeks exchanges, typically within the MVC system.

Personally I wouldn't get rid of either system. They both fill a need in our vacation lifestyle.

 

[bastroum]

They are both good systems. In my opinion, HGVC is more flexible and Marriott has better locations. My statement however is an oversimplification. I own both and most of my Marriott weeks were purchased prior to 6/10/10 on eBay. That allowed me to use them in the new DC program. Because of that, I am able to take advantage of the DC program using very cheap points. Based on my situation Marriott's system is superior to HGVC in both flexibility and locations. For those people, like you, who are thinking about this now I would buy Marriott weeks and trade them through II if I wanted to go to a variety of locations. HGVC is a great program if Honolulu, the island of Hawaii and Las Vegas are your primary destinations.

 

[Helios]

I've owned both HGVC and MVCI for about a decade now. But in 2010 MVCI changed over to selling primarily destination points instead of weeks which has had all sorts of different effects on existing owners. But as a potential new owner you have three options...

1) Buy destination points (DPs...occasionally aka Vacation Points) directly from MVCI or on the resale market. DPs are flexible like HGVC points though there are constant complaints about availability at high demand resorts (e.g. Maui) at peak times. My impression is that the Marriott Aruba resorts are in that 'high demand' category. MVCI's current price is a little over $13/pt but you can often get discounts/incentives that reduce that down to around $10/pt. If you buy resale the going price is around $4.75-$5.00/pt but you'll have to pay Marriott an additional $2/pt plus various and sundry fees.

2) Buy a week in the resale market - ideally at the resort at which you want to vacation. MVCI weeks sold resale may continue to be used as 'weeks' - you can use them, rent them, or trade them in II - but they may not be 'enrolled' to be 'elected' to be used as DPs. As a potential buyer the positive side is that with the exception of a few truly prime resorts (e.g. Maui and Marco Island) MVCI resale prices have plummeted. But as more MVCI weeks are enrolled, trading inventory via II for Marriott resorts has decreased.

3) Buy a 'hybrid' or 'bundled' package from MVCI where you buy a 'direct resale' week from them and they enroll that week so long as you buy an equal or greater number of DPs as well. The prices MVCI asks for the weeks they have in inventory range from reasonable to outrageous but buying a 'bundled' week - particularly if it to a resort you want to visit - can be a good option. I know that the 'corporate' MVCI resale department which you can see online doesn't do RTU weeks (which Aruba is). But I also know that in Boston people have been offered a bundle Custom House package...even though that property is RTU. So I don't know if somehow you might be offered an Aruba bundle IN Aruba.

All that said...there is some Marriott resort you like in the Caribbean and you know you want to go there at least every other year...buy it. But I'm not sure I would be DPs to try to get into the Caribbean every year (unless you know you are willing to travel off-season).

I own both. This post is pretty accurate, so are the other two. HGVC is flexible but MVC has the Caribbean inventory.

 

[ljmiii]

It sort of depends. MVC came out with their own brand of points...
I would NEVER consider buying resale MVC points due to the restrictions on usage and, I would NEVER buy points directly from MVC because they have very little value on the resale market plus, they're WAY to expensive.

While I agree with almost everything in this post, there are no restrictions on usage on resale MVC DPs - as long as you pay MVCI their $2/pt + other fees. As for the wisdom of buying DPs that is up to you - I agree that buying them directly from MVCI without also buying a 'direct resale' week is the most expensive of the three ways to do it.

But honestly, my real advise is rent a week in Aruba or St. Kitts or Frenchman's Cove (St. Thomas) and see if you like it. And look up resale weeks and do your math before you go so if you do like it and you go to one of the timeshare sales meetings you can know to ask for a bundled week and see what they offer. BTW, Frenchman's Cove weeks ARE deeded and not RTU - I assume because they are in the US.

 

[1Kflyerguy]

Interesting thread, as I have been giving some consideration to adding Marriott or annother brand to gain access to some different locations.

Does Marriott have anything similar to HGVC's borrow or save/rescue option that allows you to shift your usage from year to year?

 

[Helios]

Interesting thread, as I have been giving some consideration to adding Marriott or annother brand to gain access to some different locations.

Does Marriott have anything similar to HGVC's borrow or save/rescue option that allows you to shift your usage from year to year?

They do, my mother in law owns with them and they have done this (or so she says - I actually think she doesn't even know how to use the system but she claims she has borrowed).

My MVC VOI is a resale week at Ko Olina which is not in the network so my only option is using it, renting it, or exchanging.

 

[Helios]

While I agree with almost everything in this post, there are no restrictions on usage on resale MVC DPs - as long as you pay MVCI their $2/pt + other fees. As for the wisdom of buying DPs that is up to you - I agree that buying them directly from MVCI without also buying a 'direct resale' week is the most expensive of the three ways to do it.

If you pay the $2/pt + other fees, are you seeing 100% as an owner who bought from them directly?

 

[dougp26364]

Interesting thread, as I have been giving some consideration to adding Marriott or annother brand to gain access to some different locations.

Does Marriott have anything similar to HGVC's borrow or save/rescue option that allows you to shift your usage from year to year?

We own deeded weeks, so we must elect to convert those weeks to points. To that end I can convert my 2018 week to points and use those points for a 2017 reservation. I can also take points from 2017 and save them to 2018 but, once that's done, those points now have to be used in 2018 and can not be borrowed.

 

[dougp26364]

While I agree with almost everything in this post, there are no restrictions on usage on resale MVC DPs - as long as you pay MVCI their $2/pt + other fees. As for the wisdom of buying DPs that is up to you - I agree that buying them directly from MVCI without also buying a 'direct resale' week is the most expensive of the three ways to do it.

But honestly, my real advise is rent a week in Aruba or St. Kitts or Frenchman's Cove (St. Thomas) and see if you like it. And look up resale weeks and do your math before you go so if you do like it and you go to one of the timeshare sales meetings you can know to ask for a bundled week and see what they offer. BTW, Frenchman's Cove weeks ARE deeded and not RTU - I assume because they are in the US.

I had been disgusted enough with the original limitations they had placed on DC points I didn't know MVC had come out with a way resale buyers could buy their way out of purgatory. Just goes to show if there's a dollar to be made, or maybe a lawsuit to avoid, they'll find a way.

 

[ljmiii]

Does Marriott have anything similar to HGVC's borrow or save/rescue option that allows you to shift your usage from year to year?

Yes, MVCI allows you to bank or borrow points. The rules on banking are more permissive (and there is no banking fee). Higher MVCI 'Tier' status allows you to bank for 18 or 24 months instead of 12. The rules on borrowing are basically the same except insofar as the differences in using the program make it so. So with MVCI you can borrow up to 25 months in advance - since that's 12 months + the 13 months you can book in advance (depending on Tier). And there are a number of differences on 'what happens when' regarding cancellations or not using your borrowed points in a timely matter.

 

[ljmiii]

Interesting thread, as I have been giving some consideration to adding Marriott or another brand to gain access to some different locations.

I honestly don't know if I would buy into MVCI 'new'. The price and MFs are quite high....and yet the MVCI resorts we've stayed in have been fabulous. Knock on wood, DPs have also been very useful as a third currency to 'arbitrage' alongside cash and Marriott (and Hilton) rewards points to reduce the cost of our vacations.

Like many MVCI owners I was ecstatic when I heard that they would be introducing a points system, very unhappy when I read the details, and then horrified as I tracked the resale value of my MVCI weeks. A few years ago I was offered a 'deal' on enrolling my weeks if I bought a few points and (despite fearing mightily that I was throwing good money after bad) accepted. So far so good.

 

[SueDonJ]

I had been disgusted enough with the original limitations they had placed on DC points I didn't know MVC had come out with a way resale buyers could buy their way out of purgatory. Just goes to show if there's a dollar to be made, or maybe a lawsuit to avoid, they'll find a way.

Um, the rules related to usage of resale and direct-purchase Destination Club Points aren't any different now than they were on the day Marriott introduced the DC program, and of course there could be no resale Points on the external market to test those rules at that time. At the DC introduction there was overwhelming negativity towards it on TUG which contributed to an assumption (among many others) that Marriott would restrict usage of DC Points purchased externally in ways that could be imagined based on selective reading of the governing docs ... but that assumption (among many others) never came to fruition.

If I were considering a purchase today for the single purpose of staying a week in a Marriott resort in the Caribbean, I'd first stay at all of them to figure out my favorite and then purchase an external resale Week there. If I wanted to exchange maybe only every third or fourth year, or wanted to exchange out to non-Marriott resorts, I'd stick with that plan and join II. If I wanted to exchange more often but only to Marriott resorts, I'd look seriously at the Bundle Packages from Marriott Resales Operations which gives you a combination of a Week and DC Points so that you're playing in both sandboxes. I love the DC Points product for its flexibility and if I needed more timeshares I'd definitely consider purchasing Points-only - and at that time I would look closely at the cost savings between the resale and direct markets. I'm much more risk-averse than the average TUGger so I'm willing to pay a premium to safeguard against any future limitations that might be placed on external resale products, but I completely understand why some don't feel the same way.

 

[hurnik]

Thank you everyone for the explanations and comparisons (even "simple" ones as sometimes it's better that way).

So I *think* at this stage, I will have to plan things and see if I can exchange a week with an MVC member for say, Aruba or St. Thomas (flights out of my hometown airport are atrocious, so will have to use JFK/BOS). Based upon that, maybe debate about an MVC membership or not.

Currently I have an RCI OGS (and SFX search) for Key West (but MVC and HGVC have nothing there, only Hyatt it seems), but apparently didn't make it 15-18 months in advance (Have almost a 3 months window in "low" season from May - July), as I didn't account for plane tickets (ie: put the OGS in around June of 2016, failing to take into account I need to know by March to buy the plane tickets). So it is what it is.

Certainly trading one of my HGVC weeks is better than the $2000-2500 (at least for St. Thomas) that I'm seeing on Redweek. Aruba seems more reasonable.

But again, thanks for all the ideas/suggestions. I have been reading up on MVC on the forums as well. Seems like it's a bit more complex with the addition of the DCP and whether you want to pay the $2/point surcharge (ouch) if you bought resale. Although I like the Caribbean/Maui, and II availability.

I'll have to see if MVC has any "preview" sales specials like Hilton does sometimes where you can maybe get a good deal for like 90 minutes of presentation. But if they're like Vida presentations, I'll take a cyanide capsule instead. haha

 

[alwysonvac]

Is Aruba and St Kitts available for DC point reservations?
The only Caribbean timeshare resort I see on the recorded trust document thread is in St Thomas - http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/recorded-trust-documents.124949/page-13
I think this means the other Caribbean timeshare resort (Aruba & St Kitts) are only available via Interval exchanges. Correct?

 

[ljmiii]

Is Aruba and St Kitts available for DC point reservations?

Yes. In fact (at least for a one night stay) St Kitts and Aruba Surf are showing good availability in Jan 2018. Aruba Ocean is about half booked up.

 

[SueDonJ]

Is Aruba and St Kitts available for DC point reservations?
The only Caribbean timeshare resort I see on the recorded trust document thread is in St Thomas - http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/recorded-trust-documents.124949/page-13
I think this means the other Caribbean timeshare resort (Aruba & St Kitts) are only available via Interval exchanges. Correct?

No, what it means is that not all resorts have had Weeks/intervals conveyed to the DC Trust (because non-US and RTU properties can't be conveyed.) Regardless of what's been conveyed to the DC Trust, any Marriott resorts can be available using DC Points because Marriott is able to manipulate (not nefariously, just the proper word choice) inventory from all sources through the DC Exchange Company. In the case of Aruba and St. Kitts, the way that inventory makes its way to the DC Exchange Company is through Owners electing to convert their enrolled Weeks to DC Points, or, through Marriott exchanging other inventory to take intervals from II that then are made available using DC Points.

 

[alwysonvac]

No, what it means is that not all resorts have had Weeks/intervals conveyed to the DC Trust (because non-US and RTU properties can't be conveyed.) Regardless of what's been conveyed to the DC Trust, any Marriott resorts can be available using DC Points because Marriott is able to manipulate (not nefariously, just the proper word choice) inventory from all sources through the DC Exchange Company. In the case of Aruba and St. Kitts, the way that inventory makes its way to the DC Exchange Company is through Owners electing to convert their enrolled Weeks to DC Points, or, through Marriott exchanging other inventory to take intervals from II that then are made available using DC Points.

ah, ok got it. Thanks

 

[dougp26364]

Um, the rules related to usage of resale and direct-purchase Destination Club Points aren't any different now than they were on the day Marriott introduced the DC program, and of course there could be no resale Points on the external market to test those rules at that time. At the DC introduction there was overwhelming negativity towards it on TUG which contributed to an assumption (among many others) that Marriott would restrict usage of DC Points purchased externally in ways that could be imagined based on selective reading of the governing docs ... but that assumption (among many others) never came to fruition.

If I were considering a purchase today for the single purpose of staying a week in a Marriott resort in the Caribbean, I'd first stay at all of them to figure out my favorite and then purchase an external resale Week there. If I wanted to exchange maybe only every third or fourth year, or wanted to exchange out to non-Marriott resorts, I'd stick with that plan and join II. If I wanted to exchange more often but only to Marriott resorts, I'd look seriously at the Bundle Packages from Marriott Resales Operations which gives you a combination of a Week and DC Points so that you're playing in both sandboxes. I love the DC Points product for its flexibility and if I needed more timeshares I'd definitely consider purchasing Points-only - and at that time I would look closely at the cost savings between the resale and direct markets. I'm much more risk-averse than the average TUGger so I'm willing to pay a premium to safeguard against any future limitations that might be placed on external resale products, but I completely understand why some don't feel the same way.

Hmmmm, I thought when they first introduced the DC, resale points were only good for reservations made within a short window frame of 60 or 90 days. Lord only know what I was thinking.

 

[SueDonJ]

Hmmmm, I thought when they first introduced the DC, resale points were only good for reservations made within a short window frame of 60 or 90 days. Lord only know what I was thinking.

No, the rules do say something to that effect with the caveats (paraphrased) "unless certain fees are paid" and "if not purchased through an approved broker." Turns out, all Points resales are charged those fees, and, it doesn't appear that Marriott considers any brokers to be un-approved. So while the strict interpretation of the governing docs may enable Marriott to enforce very limited usage for DC Points purchased on the external resale market, in practice there aren't any external resale purchases that have been restricted in such a manner. That's why I say that the negativity in the beginning towards the DC caused some of the misconceptions that persist to this day, because many people who didn't like that Marriott developed a Points program expected - and warned against - Marriott being as evil as they possibly could be. And it came as somewhat a surprise because over the years that Marriott had only a Weeks system they didn't enforce those rules in strict accordance with the governing docs either, for the betterment of owners.

(I'm sorry, HGVC board, don't mean to be turning this into all-Marriott.)

 

[alwysonvac]

(I'm sorry, HGVC board, don't mean to be turning this into all-Marriott.)

I remember reading about the short reservation window for resale DC points as well.
So I think the discussion is very helpful to HGVC owners considering Marriott.

 

[dougp26364]

No, the rules do say something to that effect with the caveats (paraphrased) "unless certain fees are paid" and "if not purchased through an approved broker." Turns out, all Points resales are charged those fees, and, it doesn't appear that Marriott considers any brokers to be un-approved. So while the strict interpretation of the governing docs may enable Marriott to enforce very limited usage for DC Points purchased on the external resale market, in practice there aren't any external resale purchases that have been restricted in such a manner. That's why I say that the negativity in the beginning towards the DC caused some of the misconceptions that persist to this day, because many people who didn't like that Marriott developed a Points program expected - and warned against - Marriott being as evil as they possibly could be. And it came as somewhat a surprise because over the years that Marriott had only a Weeks system they didn't enforce those rules in strict accordance with the governing docs either, for the betterment of owners.

(I'm sorry, HGVC board, don't mean to be turning this into all-Marriott.)

History has shown me that the "strict" interpretation of a rule that isn't strictly enforced can bite me in the hind end later. The very first timeshare we ever purchased was a fixed week/fixed unit but, they weren't strictly enforcing that rule and, for the first several years, we were indeed allowed to float our week. Then, they changed their minds and they strictly enforced that rule. Needless to say I'm a little gun shy when rules are written but not strictly enforced. In fact, I've used it as a strong reason to never buy a timeshare based on non-enforcement of a written rule or, where rules are written that they can be changed at anytime.

And I'm not sure this is turning it all about Marriott. The post was a comparison about HGVC vs MVC, and it's important to understand the risks/rewards about either system. At the moment HGVC's point system is straight forward and easily understood. MVC's......not so much. HGVC IMHO has a clear advantage for anyone preferring a points based reservation and especially so when going thru the resale market.