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HICV Conversion Pricing History

skotrla

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HICV Conversion Pricing History (with closing, minus maintenance)

June 2015 - $8500 (Scott)
July 2015 - $10500 (Scott)
September 2015 - $8000 (Scott)
July 2016 - $9000 (Scott)
January 2017 - $5500 (not Scott, Silverleaf special offer)

Post any additional data points!

-Scott
Owner, HICV Google+ Group
 
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skotrla

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Jan 2017 $5500 (elite status but no conversions, first in-person attempt)

Price included $1100 closing - I countered with $500 closing and conversion of one fixed week, and they told me good luck and let me leave.

-Scott
Owner, HICV Google+ Group
 

skotrla

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Dec 2016 $6000 (not Scott, converted 3 units)

-Scott
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tschwa2

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Are they selling extra points for the conversion price and if so how many and deeded where and with how much additional MF's. Otherwise it sounds like they are taking your mandatory points resorts and waiving their wand to "legitimize them" and make them eligible to be used toward elite status. If that is the case why would there be any closing costs?

Other than the Silverleaf offer has anyone had any recent offers for the cost to convert a non mandatory points deeded resale like Orange Lake and if so what was the conversion cost or the points buy in required?
 

skotrla

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Are they selling extra points for the conversion price and if so how many and deeded where and with how much additional MF's. Otherwise it sounds like they are taking your mandatory points resorts and waiving their wand to "legitimize them" and make them eligible to be used toward elite status. If that is the case why would there be any closing costs?

Other than the Silverleaf offer has anyone had any recent offers for the cost to convert a non mandatory points deeded resale like Orange Lake and if so what was the conversion cost or the points buy in required?

You have to buy a unit from them, typically a 15K Lake Geneva unit if they have any in stock - sometimes larger price is due to only larger units being in stock. The unit you typically buy has a resale value of $0, so you are really paying for the conversion.

-Scott
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If I buy into a points system like Lake Geneva, how do I then use that to convert my silverleaf week into points
 

tschwa2

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skotrla

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If I buy into a points system like Lake Geneva, how do I then use that to convert my silverleaf week into points

Current requirement is something like a $5000 retail purchase for every 25K points in resale you want to convert into the club. Generally speaking, you are better off buying points resale and giving your fixed week away then trying to convert a resale purchase.

-Scott
 

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If you buy a property like Lake Geneva from HIVC it will automatically bring in your Silverleaf property. Depending on which Silverleaf property you are talking about, that will net you an additional 80,000 to 100,000 points in HIVC. You will also get the value of the Lake Geneva property you buy. So for a cost of about $6,000 you bring in a substantial number of points. Admittedly, you are paying that $6,000 for the conversion but it is not a bad deal. Of course, you will retain payment of MF on your Silverleaf property and incur more MF at Lake Geneva but the later are almost insignificant. I have no idea why one would mess around with resale points or why it would even enter into the discussion.
 
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tschwa2

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I think likely they will try to make you buy trust points which while a small package fro Lake Geneva is worth $0 it probably wouldn't be that hard to give away to a current owner. A small trust point package is going to be way worse, for those familiar with Diamond, it would be like a small Diamond resorts points package. The developer guts the value so much that it is likely to have a negative value to both current owners and non owners alike.

Also keep in mind when you convert the silverleaf the basis of your MF changes to one based on the number of points. If you own a unit that gets a lot of points, I would say anything more than 120,000, your MF on that portion will go up. The more points the higher the increase. If on the other hand your silverleaf property doesn't get very many points say under 80,000 your MF may actually go down on that portion. The new purchase will of course have its own MF basis and you also will have to pay the annual membership fee associated with all points HICV memberships.
 

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I think likely they will try to make you buy trust points which while a small package fro Lake Geneva is worth $0 it probably wouldn't be that hard to give away to a current owner. A small trust point package is going to be way worse, for those familiar with Diamond, it would be like a small Diamond resorts points package. The developer guts the value so much that it is likely to have a negative value to both current owners and non owners alike.

Also keep in mind when you convert the silverleaf the basis of your MF changes to one based on the number of points. If you own a unit that gets a lot of points, I would say anything more than 120,000, your MF on that portion will go up. The more points the higher the increase. If on the other hand your silverleaf property doesn't get very many points say under 80,000 your MF may actually go down on that portion. The new purchase will of course have its own MF basis and you also will have to pay the annual membership fee associated with all points HICV memberships.

Let me start by saying i have done this. I got 15k points from Lake Geneva- I’m not giving that away! The maintenance fees are like $100. I am now an elite HIVC member giving me many advantages. I also own other HIVC properties. It is not like Diamond Resorts.

The Silverleaf property is converted to HIVC points but the maintenance fees are still done by Silverleaf. There is no change or adjustment. i really hate Silverleaf but this makes their ownership almost a positive as compared to what it used to be which was quite negative and a pain.

I am not speculating or hypothesizing about this. This is how it works. As far as i am concerned this is the best way to gain value from Silverleaf unless you like sitting in front of sleigh shaped cocktail tables.:D
 

tschwa2

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Let me start by saying i have done this. I got 15k points from Lake Geneva- I’m not giving that away! The maintenance fees are like $100. I am now an elite HIVC member giving me many advantages. I also own other HIVC properties. It is not like Diamond Resorts.

The Silverleaf property is converted to HIVC points but the maintenance fees are still done by Silverleaf. There is no change or adjustment. i really hate Silverleaf but this makes their ownership almost a positive as compared to what it used to be which was quite negative and a pain.

I am not speculating or hypothesizing about this. This is how it works. As far as i am concerned this is the best way to gain value from Silverleaf unless you like sitting in front of sleigh shaped cocktail tables.:D

When you bought they weren't selling the trust. The trust sales started 7/1 and not every location started selling the trust right away. I highly recommend buying Lake Geneva as long as that is an option. The trust is not a good product especially for a small purchase but they won't be telling you that. Even if they will still sell Lake Geneva to convert they will make the trust sound like the bees knees and it is ok as long as you are a HICV member but it doesn't transfer with 95% of the benefits the way Lake Geneva does.

In terms of your Silverleaf week there have been many reports of changes in MF with enrollment. Maybe you had an earlier contract, maybe you bought at a specific Silverleaf property where this isn't the case or maybe you receive an average number of points for your week and didn't notice the difference.

The Trust that HICV is transitioning to is much more like Diamond than what you bought. Rules change and what you bought isn't what they are necessarily selling right now. Right now you probably can still get what you bought but you have to know the difference and ask for it.
 

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Let me start by saying i have done this. I got 15k points from Lake Geneva- I’m not giving that away! The maintenance fees are like $100. I am now an elite HIVC member giving me many advantages. I also own other HIVC properties. It is not like Diamond Resorts.

The Silverleaf property is converted to HIVC points but the maintenance fees are still done by Silverleaf. There is no change or adjustment. i really hate Silverleaf but this makes their ownership almost a positive as compared to what it used to be which was quite negative and a pain.

I am not speculating or hypothesizing about this. This is how it works. As far as i am concerned this is the best way to gain value from Silverleaf unless you like sitting in front of sleigh shaped cocktail tables.:D

When did you make a 15K Lake Geneva purchase and get Elite? Was that your only developer purchase? I did the same thing early last year, but mid-last year the rules changed dramatically, so timing is critical to understand how relevant your experiences are to today's potential buyers.

-Scott
 

skotrla

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When you bought they weren't selling the trust. The trust sales started 7/1 and not every location started selling the trust right away. I highly recommend buying Lake Geneva as long as that is an option. The trust is not a good product especially for a small purchase but they won't be telling you that. Even if they will still sell Lake Geneva to convert they will make the trust sound like the bees knees and it is ok as long as you are a HICV member but it doesn't transfer with 95% of the benefits the way Lake Geneva does.

In terms of your Silverleaf week there have been many reports of changes in MF with enrollment. Maybe you had an earlier contract, maybe you bought at a specific Silverleaf property where this isn't the case or maybe you receive an average number of points for your week and didn't notice the difference.

The Trust that HICV is transitioning to is much more like Diamond than what you bought. Rules change and what you bought isn't what they are necessarily selling right now. Right now you probably can still get what you bought but you have to know the difference and ask for it.

Resale trust is no guests - what other reductions in benefits are there?

-Scott
 

skotrla

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If you buy a property like Lake Geneva from HIVC it will automatically bring in your Silverleaf property. Depending on which Silverleaf property you are talking about, that will net you an additional 80,000 to 100,000 points in HIVC. You will also get the value of the Lake Geneva property you buy. So for a cost of about $6,000 you bring in a substantial number of points. Admittedly, you are paying that $6,000 for the conversion but it is not a bad deal. Of course, you will retain payment of MF on your Silverleaf property and incur more MF at Lake Geneva but the later are almost insignificant. I have no idea why one would mess around with resale points or why it would even enter into the discussion.

For new buyers, the relevant questions are what HICV status you will get and what your maintenance fees are. If you make a developer purchase and don't get status and the maintenance fees are not substantially lower than the resorts that are resale on points, then you would likely come out ahead buying resale. $6000 goes a long way on the resale market with low maintenance units in the $5-$6/1K range.

-Scott
 

tschwa2

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Resale trust is no guests - whatever other reductions in benefits are there?

-Scott
You only have access to the trust inventory not inventory as a whole. I believe there is no banking or borrowing or renting points. You have what you have and if you don't use it during the use year it expires. I think there may be others. It's been a while since I read the document so when I get a chance to review it I will post any others that I see.
 

skotrla

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You only have access to the trust inventory not inventory as a whole. I believe there is no banking or borrowing or renting points. You have what you have and if you don't use it during the use year it expires. I think there may be others. It's been a while since I read the document so when I get a chance to review it I will post any others that I see.

Thanks for the update.

-Scott
 

tschwa2

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c. Reservation Restrictions. Currently, the Reservation Window for any given Use Period is the period commencing on the date that is six (6) months prior to the first day of such Use Period and ending on the first day of such Use Period. The first day that a reservation may be made for any Use Period is the first day of the Reservation Window for such Use Period. Any Use Period not reserved by an Owner within sixty (60) days prior to the beginning of such Use Period may be reserved by the Trust Manager for use by the Association or Trust Manager for any purposes Trust Manager deems advisable, including, without limitation, rental of such Use Period.

It looks like resale trust inventory cannot be reserved until 6 months prior to check in.
The developer can also pull out any inventory still available at 6 months for any reason. I don't know if this applies to other HICV inventory but it is explicitly part of the trust documents.
 

skotrla

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It looks like resale trust inventory cannot be reserved until 6 months prior to check in.
The developer can also pull out any inventory still available at 6 months for any reason. I don't know if this applies to other HICV inventory but it is explicitly part of the trust documents.

Wow, at 60 days HICV can take all remaining inventory and rent it out? That's crazy! That's only resale inventory in the trust or all trust inventory?

-Scott
 

tschwa2

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Wow, at 60 days HICV can take all remaining inventory and rent it out? That's crazy! That's only resale inventory in the trust or all trust inventory?

-Scott
I believe that is all trust inventory. I haven't read the detailed rules from regular HICV but I wouldn't be surprised if that isn't the case there as well. I know Wyndham and Vistana and maybe even Marriott has that provision in their clubs as well. It doesn't mean that they take everything. I think it means that as long as their is something available in the vacation inventory pool they can advertise it on their hotel site have it available both ways and see who takes it first. I also don't think they pull vacation club inventory as long as they have their own hotel inventory for those dates already. I don't think they would pull out multiple units just in case they could rent it but the club rules allow them to do so. They also don't discount the hotel inventory last minute just to sell vacation property either. So if someone is online ready to put in a cc for the regular rental price and they have no inventory at the vacation resort and the vacation club does, they may yank it from an owner who might be waiting hoping it will be available if they wait another day or two. They also don't have to reimburse the club with either money or units at a later date to replace what they take. It's there club and they write the rules.
 

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This is the wording from the general HICV disclosure guide that pertains to all HICV members page 28/67:

However, during the Instant Access Period, a Member’s ability to obtain a Reservation will be limited by and subject to any Reservation request made by GAE for its own purposes (or those of any of its affiliated companies) including for exchange, promotional use, rental or any other purpose as GAE determines in its sole discretion.

You can find these disclosure documents at: http://orangelake.com/legaldocuments/home
Username: holiday
Password: welcome!
 
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HICV Conversion Pricing History (with closing, minus maintenance)

June 2015 - $8500 (Scott)
July 2015 - $10500 (Scott)
September 2015 - $8000 (Scott)
July 2016 - $9000 (Scott)
January 2017 - $5500 (not Scott, Silverleaf special offer)

Post any additional data points!

-Scott
Owner, HICV Google+ Group

I was given an option to buy 35000 points at $9000 in order to convert my week valued at 145000 from SilverLeaf to HICV
 
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