• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Some Questions When Renting Out Unit

spaulino

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2013
Messages
260
Reaction score
5
Points
128
Location
Orange County, California
Resorts Owned
Marriott Ko'Olina Beach Club
I have a few questions since I'm going to be renting out my studio unit. I have read some threads here but I want to know what others do. I know where to post rental, how much, etc but what do you normally use for your agreement? And what do you normally ask for down payment, and/or PIF and what type of payment do you ask for? Do you split up down payment and PIF so many days before reservation date? I have paypal and paypal me so I think paypal me would be best... or no? I read some people would rather have checks to see their address etc, but why? A check has a chance of being returned for NSF? If anyone would like to send me a blank copy of agreement, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks in advance for your input.
 

DeniseM

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
57,668
Reaction score
9,087
Points
1,849
Resorts Owned
WKORV, WKV, 2-SDO, 4-Kauai Beach Villas, Island Park Village (Yellowstone), Hyatt High Sierra, Dolphin's Cove (Anaheim)
This is what I do:

Sent guest a rental agreement (there are samples on the advice page)
After I get it back, I send them a PayPal invoice for a non-refundable $100 deposit.
Then I have reservations issue a confirmation in the guest's name and send it to them.
They have 48 hours to review, and then the final payment is due.
No changes - no cancellations - no refunds.

The longer you give a renter to make the final payment, they more likely they are to back out, and the more likely you are to get stuck with the week.
 

MOXJO7282

Tug Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
5,523
Reaction score
1,300
Points
599
I follow Denise's policy but for my lesser demand weeks I'm more flexible with using paypal for full payment and whether or not I incur the fee because I feel I will have less inquires and want to close every one. With our high demand Marriott units we set the price and follow Denise's policy exactly.

BTW, I just started requesting the non-refundable $100 paypal invoice after I saw Denise's comments in a previous thread and I must say it adds a level of comfort because when you receive that $100 payment you can rest assured the person is committed because nobody pays $5 unless they're ready to proceed whereas until you get that deposit/payment you just don't know so I do recommend you following that policy.

Thank you for that guidance DeniseM.!
 

Saintsfanfl

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2012
Messages
8,844
Reaction score
630
Points
399
Location
Central Florida
I do accept PayPal but a check is far more secure. It may come back nsf but then you know within a few days. With PayPal, unless the renter is sending as friends or family, you may not know for months, or possibly even a year. Credit card disputes are based on the promise of delivery, which in this case is the check-in day.

Not making good on an nsf check is a crime. That makes someone paying by check for a timeshare rental and not making good about 1 in 100,000 or more. Very little risk, but you can always put the listing back up and take another renter.

The laws are very imbalanced. If you take a check for any reason and no matter if you deliver or not the check writer has to pay up or they can be arrested. If they pay by cc they can pick a number of different reasons to dispute and the burden of proof is on the merchant.

There is an obvious reason why PayPal does not officially allow payments for real estate purchases or rentals. If someone successfully disputes, PayPal gets hit first, and then they try and recover from the actual party. Sometimes they can't recover and they have to eat it. I'm sure they've gotten hit by scammers which might be why they have the policy.

Lately I have had impatient renters who don't want agreements and want to pay in full as quick as possible so I let them pay with PayPal. One recent even sent as friends and family without asking. That cannot ever be disputed. I'll take it but I would never ask someone to pay with that method.

I don't rent many but so far I've never had an issue with any payment method or agreement type. I'm thinking about switching to another tugger's method of a simple invoice instead of a rental contract. Lately it seems less trouble but I haven't decided yet.
 

DeniseM

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
57,668
Reaction score
9,087
Points
1,849
Resorts Owned
WKORV, WKV, 2-SDO, 4-Kauai Beach Villas, Island Park Village (Yellowstone), Hyatt High Sierra, Dolphin's Cove (Anaheim)
Actually, Paypal absolutely does allow rentals - but not the purchase of real estate.
 

GaryDouglas

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
1,302
Reaction score
144
Points
423
Location
Pleasanton, CA USA
Resorts Owned
Marriott Maui Ocean
Club Suites and Villas
When I rented a few years back, I made sure that the PayPal transaction was made directly against their checking account and not using a credit card. Besides escaping the bank charges involved with CC usage, it should isolate you just as if a check was used.
 

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
47,354
Reaction score
18,913
Points
1,299
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
When I rented a few years back, I made sure that the PayPal transaction was made directly against their checking account and not using a credit card. Besides escaping the bank charges involved with CC usage, it should isolate you just as if a check was used.
Is there a way to tell? They can use the friends and family option and still pay by credit card. The fee is just charged to them instead of you.
 

Saintsfanfl

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2012
Messages
8,844
Reaction score
630
Points
399
Location
Central Florida
When I rented a few years back, I made sure that the PayPal transaction was made directly against their checking account and not using a credit card. Besides escaping the bank charges involved with CC usage, it should isolate you just as if a check was used.

There is still a fee. It doesn't matter what payment method they use. PayPal charges the same 2.9% + .30 whether it's a cc or a bank transfer. The only time it's free is when they choose to send as friends or family.
 

GaryDouglas

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
1,302
Reaction score
144
Points
423
Location
Pleasanton, CA USA
Resorts Owned
Marriott Maui Ocean
Club Suites and Villas
Last edited:

Saintsfanfl

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2012
Messages
8,844
Reaction score
630
Points
399
Location
Central Florida
The last time I made a transfer, it was from my bank account and neither me or the receiver were charged any fees.

From the PayPal site:
Send money to friends and family
It’s free in the U.S. when you use bank or balance.

Yes but a timeshare rental to an unknown party is not a friends and family transaction. It is a business transaction. Business transactions are always charged a fee to the receiver.

Someone listing a timeshare should not ask a renter to pay as friends and family and a renter should consider it a red flag. I've had someone do it without asking to avoid adding the fee I required but I have since stopped added fees for PayPal. Someone did it recently with no prior discussion. Not sure why but nothing I could do about it.

Does anyone use a PayPal business account? I might switch to that in order to generate an emailed invoice.
 

MOXJO7282

Tug Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
5,523
Reaction score
1,300
Points
599
Yes but a timeshare rental to an unknown party is not a friends and family transaction. It is a business transaction. Business transactions are always charged a fee to the receiver.

Someone listing a timeshare should not ask a renter to pay as friends and family and a renter should consider it a red flag.
I don't think it necessarily has to be considered a friend or family transaction just because someone chooses to pay via bank account vs credit card.

I don't specify how they need to pay if they want to use PP but I notate in my ads "Paypal or personal check" and some will still want to use Paypal and will tell me they're sending from Bank Acct so I won't incur fees. A few also want to use PP and add the 3% to perhaps get the credit card points or maybe they feel safer that way to still go through Paypal no matter what payment method.
 
Last edited:

tschwa2

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2008
Messages
16,002
Reaction score
4,676
Points
748
Location
Maryland
Resorts Owned
A few in S and VA, a single resort in NC, MD, PA, and UT, plus Jamaica and the Bahamas
Unless they specify that they are sending to Friends and Family and use the PayPal Balance or Bank account the 3% fee will apply. So if you send an invoice and they pay by PP Balance or Bank account or they select Pay for Goods and Services and pay by PP balance or bank account the fee will still apply.
 

Saintsfanfl

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2012
Messages
8,844
Reaction score
630
Points
399
Location
Central Florida
What tschwa2 said. There is still a fee even with a bank transfer. Is the renter a friend or family member? Perhaps but that is not what is being discussed. If the renter correctly selects that they are paying for goods or services then there is a fee charged to the receiver. Bank or cc, still a fee.

PayPal does not intend to be a free service for business transactions. Also, if a renter incorrectly selects friends and family then they have zero protection.
 

DeniseM

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
57,668
Reaction score
9,087
Points
1,849
Resorts Owned
WKORV, WKV, 2-SDO, 4-Kauai Beach Villas, Island Park Village (Yellowstone), Hyatt High Sierra, Dolphin's Cove (Anaheim)
Clarification:

-Per PayPal policies, for rentals or any other type of business transaction, you may not ask the renter to make a "friends and family" payment. You may get away with it for awhile, but if you do it often, PayPal will notice - and they don't like it, because you are cutting them out of their fee.

-"Friends and Family" payments do not include PayPal protection for the renter.

-With a "purchase" type payment, there is a 2.9% fee, regardless of how the renter pays, and the 2.9% is deducted from your payment.

-The easiest way to handle it is simply add 2.9% to your total rent - don't charge the renter separately, or even bring it up.
 
Last edited:

icydog

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,867
Reaction score
334
Points
468
Location
Central NJ
I have used PayPal for years for my rentals. I haven't had a problem but now I'm worried. I rented three weeks at NCV and both renters sent their payments through PayPal without any issues. But, what bothers me, is both renters used a cellphone and sent all their information in small letters- never capitalizing any letters. I just figured it's the new way of doing things but could I have been scammed?

How can a scammer have a year to withdraw the funds from their credit cards as Saintsfanfl mentioned above? I'll be out over 7K if these renters are scammers.
 

DeniseM

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
57,668
Reaction score
9,087
Points
1,849
Resorts Owned
WKORV, WKV, 2-SDO, 4-Kauai Beach Villas, Island Park Village (Yellowstone), Hyatt High Sierra, Dolphin's Cove (Anaheim)
I have never heard of someone having a year to dispute a charge. My understanding is that they have 60 or 90 days after it appears on their credit card statement. I don't think typing in lower case will have any impact.

*A scammer would probably not use a valid credit card to begin with. They would most likely use a stolen credit card in a different name than their own.

Do you always make sure the name on the PayPal payment, and the name on the reservation are the same? One of my terms is that the contact person's name, the name on the PayPal payment, and the name on the reservation must all be the same.

All that being said, I think credit card scams through PayPal are pretty rare. I only remember one being reported on TUG, and the timeshare owner allowed the renter to put a completely different name on the reservation. It turned out that the renter wanted to do that, because they were paying with a stolen credit card.
 
Last edited:

Saintsfanfl

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2012
Messages
8,844
Reaction score
630
Points
399
Location
Central Florida
Any reputable credit card company will allow a dispute from the check-in date, which is the promise of delivery. The 60-90 day standard is for a normal purchase. You may have to contact directly rather than the built-in online dispute but they will allow it, especially AMEX.

Think of it this way. A scammer sells something online but suddenly the item is on back order. They wait for the dispute clock to tick down from the statement date that the charge is on. Then they either promise delivery or they vanish. The law is easily circumvented by the scammer simply stalling. It doesn't work. You can still dispute.

All that said, I fully agree with Denise. There is almost no risk from an outright scammer. The risk however can be from an untrustworthy renter, or someone that had "family issues" and couldn't go and wants their money back. Perhaps even from an act of god. It can be common in Florida during hurricane season. It's still probably low risk. I haven't run into it yet but i dont rent out many.
 
Last edited:

Saintsfanfl

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2012
Messages
8,844
Reaction score
630
Points
399
Location
Central Florida
Icydog, they cant just automatically withdraw funds from their cc. They would have to file a cc dispute, and they would have to go through hoops explaining the promise of delivery issue. Even if that happened you would be able to respond. If you have the money I think your risk is extremely low to zero. No scammer is going to plan a vacation and then bank on filing a dispute and getting their money bank. You also have PayPal as the true merchant between them and you. Paypal wont hand over money that easily and then come after you for collection.
 

grupp

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2005
Messages
662
Reaction score
316
Points
423
Location
Minnesota
BTW, I just started requesting the non-refundable $100 paypal invoice after I saw Denise's comments in a previous thread and I must say it adds a level of comfort because when you receive that $100 payment you can rest assured the person is committed because nobody pays $5 unless they're ready to proceed whereas until you get that deposit/payment you just don't know so I do recommend you following that policy.

I am just the opposite, as I previously would request the $100 deposite and found it to be an unnessary step in the process. Once we have an agreement, I send a rental agreement using Adobe Sign so they can sign electronically. After they sign, I put the reservation in their name, send them the updated confirmation and give them 10 days to pay. I have never had anyone back out after signing the agreement.

I know I operate differnt than most here as the majority of my payments are personal check and I do not use PayPal, but do use Depositguard.
 

sea&ski

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2010
Messages
253
Reaction score
51
Points
238
Location
Arizona
Guess I am lucky....

I have been asked to submit payment as 'friends and family', the owner explained the costs/fees as a deterrent to doing anything but. Also, I always want to pay my total rental cost immediately because as a renter, this indicates a willingness on the owners' part to commit to me, and me only. I understand why these may be "flags" - but to me, as a renter, these give me confidence in my choice.

It does go both ways...
 

spaulino

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2013
Messages
260
Reaction score
5
Points
128
Location
Orange County, California
Resorts Owned
Marriott Ko'Olina Beach Club
Thanks everyone.

Question though about paypal. When I want to send money someone that has paypal.me, I just normally click on her link and send money that way. Is this not an advisable way to collect money from a renter? I dont see anything wrong with it and it seems like its an easy way to get a payment form someone. I never get charged for using that method and I'm sure the person I'm sending money to does not get charged for using this way of accepting payments from people. I do have paypal.me as well so I'm assuming this will be the way I would want my renter to use to send me the payment.
 

DeniseM

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
57,668
Reaction score
9,087
Points
1,849
Resorts Owned
WKORV, WKV, 2-SDO, 4-Kauai Beach Villas, Island Park Village (Yellowstone), Hyatt High Sierra, Dolphin's Cove (Anaheim)
[I dont see anything wrong with it]

But PayPal does... ;)

There are two ways to pay on PayPal:

1) Friends and Family
2) A purchase type payment

PayPal doesn't permit sellers to use Friends and Family for purchases, because PayPal doesn't collect a fee. If you do it often enough, PayPal will notice. This will impact the seller, not the buyer.
 
Last edited:

spaulino

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2013
Messages
260
Reaction score
5
Points
128
Location
Orange County, California
Resorts Owned
Marriott Ko'Olina Beach Club
Thanks Denise...

This is off topic but I've never seen anyone ask here and it's probably not possible anyway (or might even be a stupid question). Can I rent out my lock off to Marriott? Meaning can I contact Marriott and say I'm not going to use this unit and can they put it back to their inventory to rent out to others (not owners) for more money than what they paid me for it? Just curious. I know owners would rather rent it out, or deposit for future use but just curious if that's even possible.
 
Top