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Marathoner

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3) Its not the situation that has them upset. Im not going to tell you what I think has upset the guys and gals in the executive suite.

Why don't you just tell us why they are upset?
 

am1

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Why don't you just tell us why they are upset?

I think people on TUG need to realize that no one owes anyone on on here an explanation about anything. Information will be shared as one sees fit.
 

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Why don't you just tell us why they are upset?

I probably phrased that wrong. All of them are not pissed at all of us, rather some of them are pissed at some of us.

why do I think some of the executives are "pissed" at some of us owners? Bottom line is that no one likes to be taken advantage of, and nobody likes to look foolish. And some of us made some of them look bad
 

wjappraise

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I probably phrased that wrong. All of them are not pissed at all of us, rather some of them are pissed at some of us.

why do I think some of the executives are "pissed" at some of us owners? Bottom line is that no one likes to be taken advantage of, and nobody likes to look foolish. And some of us made some of them look bad

Interesting point, Ron. However, dragging this into the fourth month, coupled with NO COMMUNICATION, and placing accounts in a frozen status for an inordinate amount of time that negated ARP for many of us, is the actual "bad look" that Wyndham wears. From my vantage point, NOT ONE OWNER has been reconciled and cleared yet. That is inexcusable, it is a violation of the spirit of the trust, if not the terms. And it certainly has garnered attention from the governing bodies in the state of Florida and beyond. The other "bad look" comes from the incompetent IT department.

Many of us had reached out to Wyndham prior to the mass "suspensions" and this was ignored as they had full faith in their IT department. Many of us were candid in our opening "interview" with the Wyndham reps in August, wherein we disclosed that we had too many points, due to faults in their IT department. And now we are in December, with NOTHING RESOLVED. The national election results could be recounted, by hand, quicker than that. Adam (am1) still does not have the "thawed" access most of the rest of us have been granted, and he is still making what must be HUGE monthly maintenance fee payments. It sounds as though he is "being taken advantage of," not Club Wyndham or its agents.
 

T-Dot-Traveller

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Hi wrappraise,
Good post .


FYI - I. am not sure if -am1 - wishes to have his non-TUG name used ( if possible )

I know it is know by some Wyndham owners like yourself but ...( maybe use edit and just leave his TUG name )

I will use my TUG name and first name in some PM / conversations ,- but prefer not having it connected through my TUG posts by the ownership of our TS .

Call it paranoia or just ...

Can edit my post afterward also

PS - I am not yet sure how to fully use PM / conversations
which is why I posted .

.
 
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ronparise

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Interesting point, Ron. However, dragging this into the fourth month, coupled with NO COMMUNICATION, and placing accounts in a frozen status for an inordinate amount of time that negated ARP for many of us, is the actual "bad look" that Wyndham wears. From my vantage point, NOT ONE OWNER has been reconciled and cleared yet. That is inexcusable, it is a violation of the spirit of the trust, if not the terms. And it certainly has garnered attention from the governing bodies in the state of Florida and beyond. The other "bad look" comes from the incompetent IT department.

Many of us had reached out to Wyndham prior to the mass "suspensions" and this was ignored as they had full faith in their IT department. Many of us were candid in our opening "interview" with the Wyndham reps in August, wherein we disclosed that we had too many points, due to faults in their IT department. And now we are in December, with NOTHING RESOLVED. The national election results could be recounted, by hand, quicker than that. Adam (am1) still does not have the "thawed" access most of the rest of us have been granted, and he is still making what must be HUGE monthly maintenance fee payments. It sounds as though he is "being taken advantage of," not Club Wyndham or its agents.
My status is no different than AM1's Still frozen after all this time and still paying maintenance fees. Im not saying that makes me happy.

I wasnt happy when a Florida State Trooper pulled me over not too long ago and gave me a $250 speeding ticket. But I was doing 90 mph.. I cant say he wasnt fair.

The time this is taking and the poor systems are issues worthy of discussion (and my anger) but when I step back and look at this from their perspective I do feel Im being treated with respect and fairly
 

ronparise

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Hi wrappraise,
Good post .


FYI - I. am not sure if -am1 - wishes to have his non-TUG name used ( if possible )

I know it is know by some Wyndham owners like yourself but ...( maybe use edit and just leave his TUG name )

I will use my TUG name and first name in some PM / conversations but prefer not having it connected through my TUG posts by the ownership !of our TS .

Call it paranoia or just ...

Can edit my post afterward also

PS - I am not yet sure how to fully use PM / conversations
which is why I posted .

.

Pretty sure everyone at wyndham knows exactly who AM1 is
 

BellaWyn

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Interesting point, Ron. However, dragging this into the fourth month, coupled with NO COMMUNICATION, and placing accounts in a frozen status for an inordinate amount of time that negated ARP for many of us, is the actual "bad look" that Wyndham wears. From my vantage point, NOT ONE OWNER has been reconciled and cleared yet. That is inexcusable, it is a violation of the spirit of the trust, if not the terms. And it certainly has garnered attention from the governing bodies in the state of Florida and beyond. The other "bad look" comes from the incompetent IT department.

Many of us had reached out to Wyndham prior to the mass "suspensions" and this was ignored as they had full faith in their IT department. Many of us were candid in our opening "interview" with the Wyndham reps in August, wherein we disclosed that we had too many points, due to faults in their IT department. And now we are in December, with NOTHING RESOLVED. The national election results could be recounted, by hand, quicker than that. Adam (am1) still does not have the "thawed" access most of the rest of us have been granted, and he is still making what must be HUGE monthly maintenance fee payments. It sounds as though he is "being taken advantage of," not Club Wyndham or its agents.

Maybe Ron has a different communication pipeline to WYN than other suspended owners because his frustration, as reflected in his more recent posts, seems to be softening. Or he is choosing to be less overt about it which is a deviation from his historical posting patterns. My question is why? What's motivating the softer reflection of a situation that is still unresolved, costing ongoing MF's with still no (or limited) access to paid-in-full and current accounts?

Ron is being treated "fairly" so how does his treatment differ from yours wjappraise that makes him feel this way? Because clearly, your treatment (or am1's or any other suspended owner), IMO, has no reflection of "fairness" in any respect.
 

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Maybe Ron has a different communication pipeline to WYN than other suspended owners because his frustration, as reflected in his more recent posts, seems to be softening. Or he is choosing to be less overt about it which is a deviation from his historical posting patterns. My question is why? What's motivating the softer reflection of a situation that is still unresolved, costing ongoing MF's with still no (or limited) access to paid-in-full and current accounts?

Ron is being treated "fairly" so how does his treatment differ from yours wjappraise that makes him feel this way? Because clearly, your treatment (or am1's or any other suspended owner), IMO, has no reflection of "fairness" in any respect.

I am trying to separate my emotions from the process.. the situation is unresolved but discussions are underway and I can see a light a the end of the tunnel

I still own this stuff (whether or not I can use it is another question) and therefore I am responsible for my fair share of the expenses.
 

BellaWyn

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But to your points:
1) Slightly counter, but not entirely contradictory ....
Wyndham is in the rental business, and so am I. Each rental customer of mine I think they see as rightfully theirs. I think it bothers them that so many of us are able to make a little money with their product.
".... so many of US" meaning??? How many does WYN think is included in that US because it's actually a very small handful of owners that fall into the mega-renter / point manager group compared to the the hundreds of thousands of owners in the WYN system. The rest are the occasional VIP owners just trying to cover MF's and not make it a rental business!

The suspension email we received started with this line.."Acting in our capacity as manager for CLUB WYNDHAM Plus..." so clearly they are representing the club in this whole suspension thing. I think making life difficult for the mega renters is a bonus for Wyndham.. and not the prime motivation for the suspensions. They represent themselves under the cover of representing the club in the respect that the POINTS ACCOUNTING SYSTEM has been mis-managed, which is their job as the MANAGEMENT COMPANY that the Club ownership pays them to do!

2) as near as I can tell everyone that got suspended had more points and points in reservations than could be justified by what they own. If Wyndham was to just ignore these "extra" points that wouldn't be fair to the ownership base. Based on the the historical postings in this thread, the bulk of the suspended owners have never asked WYN to "ignore" the extra points. Many have actually brought the situation to WYN's attention in an effort to deal with WYN honestly. There may be a small handful of owners that have been hoping the extra points would continue to go unnoticed but those are the exception, not the rule.

I think the time they are taking to finish the audits and take back their points is inexcusable, but I don't think its unfair. <-- that's just a straight-up conflicting statement.

3) It's not the situation that has them upset. I'm not going to tell you what I think has upset the guys and gals in the executive suite. Pissed off may be too strong, but I'm convinced that I've given some of them some heartburn.
Finally, first person statements instead of scooping the collective suspended owners into the same situation as you. Your situation is unique in that you knowingly, and openly have been stating (over thousands of posts since 2011) you have been taking extreme advantage of the WYN "loopholes." Other suspended owners have not employed those same extreme methodologies.

4) I don't believe all owners are at risk and I don't think whats happened to some of us was done on a whim. ALL owners are at risk as long as there continues to be zero recourse when / if WYN can suspend access to a paid-in-full account that have timely payments of MF's for an indefinite period of time with almost no communication or support. The length of these unresolved audits and suspensions is a reflection of their capricious and disrespectful attitude toward ALL Wyndham owners, suspended or not.

as I said.. Just my opinion (based on my experience) Your "experience" with WYN is unique by your own design and cannot be fully applied to the mass of Wyndham owners. Most have not openly gone about applying extreme methods to take advantage of "loopholes" you discovered and used to your advantage.

It's always better when you only speak for yourself and not try be the mouthpiece for all suspended owners or WYN. Unless you are somehow directly connected with WYN stating what they "feel" falls outside of any normal Wyndham Owner's ability to truly be able to do that. It's up to WYN to tell us how they "FEEL" about this situation and they are not communicating with other suspended owners.
 
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BellaWyn

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I am trying to separate my emotions from the process.. the situation is unresolved but discussions are underway and I can see a light a the end of the tunnel

I still own this stuff (whether or not I can use it is another question) and therefore I am responsible for my fair share of the expenses.

At least you are having "discussions" because apparently, there are other suspended owners that have yet to get that far. One can never truly separate emotion when it comes to $$-related issues. However, one can feel somewhat more positive about it if they know the outcome will not be as financially challenging as they initially expected it to be.

Have been through TOO MANY IRS audit's with clients over MANY years to not understand how this works. There is a marked difference in how people feel and respond once they get past the initial explosive horror of how bad it "could be" vs what gets negotiated as a final outcome.

So, maybe being able to "see a light" means that your outcome might not be as bleak. But knowing is different than being kept in the dark, which, other suspended owners are still danging in that dark space with no indication of where the train is heading or when it will even arrive at the station. They have yet to be privledged with "discussion" from WYN.
 

ronparise

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I never meant to speak for everyone. Only to say what I see and share the way I feel

I suspect Wyndham is dealing with the more difficult cases first. And it's obviously taking a long time but while that's happening others have been allowed to go back to work subject to a possible loss of points. Not ideal but not so bad for them either
 

wjappraise

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I am trying to separate my emotions from the process.. the situation is unresolved but discussions are underway and I can see a light a the end of the tunnel

I still own this stuff (whether or not I can use it is another question) and therefore I am responsible for my fair share of the expenses.

That is likely why my mood and attitude are diminishing, not improving. The most recent phone call update I received from Wyndham was on SEPTEMBER 27, 2016!! Let that sink in for a little bit. . . . ten weeks since any type of update.

Of course, that date was coincidentally placed one week after I needed to use my ARP for an event our large group does every Thanksgiving. We reserve ten rooms, most being larger Presidential Reserve suites at Bonnet Creek, using my PR ARP at Bonnet Creek that activates at 14 months. It was the SOLE reason I purchased up to the Presidential Reserve level (I know, stupid, but it was before I found TUG). So, once my account was thawed enough to allow for that, I no longer had access to any of the 3- or 4-bedroom units we use for our group. And that is the entire reason I have my Wyndham account, is for this trip. So, I see no "light" at the end of the tunnel, just a bill every month that must be paid. Even when I remove emotion from the formula, the net result is not a pleasant result, not by a long shot.
 

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I have left 10 messages between last night and today and have not received a call back within the hour as promised or today at all.
 

am1

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Finally received a call back at 6:50 pm. Not from my voicemails but I called the regular owner care line and they sent in a message. As usual no reason why my voicemails were not replied. I told the case specialist I was just sitting down to my mother in laws birthday dinner and if they could call back at 7:55pm, was told 7:30 would be the latest. At 7:30pm the agent called and I asked to be called back in 5 minutes as the food was just delivered. Called back in 5 minutes but after verifying my info the call was dropped. No callback. I call owner care and let them know the situation and they just offer to transfer me back to the other number where I leave another message that will probably go un replied to.

I feel bad for the people answering the phone while their boss gets a golden parachute for poorly running the company but it comes with the job. Most do such a good job but Wyndham does not support them.
 

BellaWyn

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.....it's obviously taking a long time but while that's happening others have been allowed to go back to work subject to a possible loss of points. Not ideal but not so bad for them either
That's like saying it's not horrible to have to sleep on the front lawn because the IRS seized my property and locked me out of the house while they audit whether or not I paid enough property tax, even though they already acknowledge that I have because they have not foreclosed, only seized. So, gosh, grateful they left me the front lawn.... WTH?

Wacky wacky spin on the situation.
 

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That's like saying it's not horrible to have to sleep on the front lawn because the IRS seized my property and locked me out of the house while they audit whether or not I paid enough property tax, even though they already acknowledge that I have because they have not foreclosed, only seized. So, gosh, grateful they left me the front lawn.... WTH?

Wacky wacky spin on the situation.

ok you win. Tell me how I should feel about this
 

BellaWyn

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ok you win. Tell me how I should feel about this
Why would I want to?

And how did you flip that analogy over to be about how you should feel? You saddled other owners with the "not ideal but not so bad for them" statement. Isn't that YOU telling THEM how they are supposed to feel about what has happened to them? it's a spin completely unworthy of your intellect.
 

ronparise

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Why would I want to?

And how did you flip that analogy over to be about how you should feel? You saddled other owners with the "not ideal but not so bad for them" statement. Isn't that YOU telling THEM how they are supposed to feel about what has happened to them? it's a spin completely unworthy of your intellect.

You have taken issue with everything I've said here recently, questioning the conclusions that I've taken from my experience with wyndham.

So l say they have treated me fairly and based on conversations I've had with other suspended owners I'd say they are being treated fairly too. (AM1 may be the exception) But based on I don't know what, you say I'm wrong. So I'm asking. How should I feel?

As to why they are talking to me and not others? I think it's because I have been willing to take a step back and see their side of it and I'm working with them; not against them. Others that took a combative approach are waiting. Once I understood what they wanted from me things got easier.
 

BellaWyn

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You have taken issue with everything I've said here recently, questioning the conclusions that I've taken from my experience with wyndham.

So l say they have treated me fairly and based on conversations I've had with other suspended owners I'd say they are being treated fairly too. (AM1 may be the exception) But based on I don't know what, you say I'm wrong. So I'm asking. How should I feel?

As to why they are talking to me and not others? I think it's because I have been willing to take a step back and see their side of it and I'm working with them; not against them. Others that took a combative approach are waiting. Once I understood what they wanted from me things got easier.

1) "Everything" is an overstatement. Agree however that I do take issue with much that you say of late.

2) Do not question your consclusions when you keep them specific to yourself related to your interactions with Wyndham. Posturing that those conclusions should be reflective of what others are experiencing is a generaliztion you are not in a position to make.

3) Whatever conversations you may, or may not, have had with other suspended owners are hearsay. Wyndham sales people basically use the same methodolgy to influence others. Am not saying you have not had those conversations, am merely saying it is your reflection of the conversations and possibly comes with it's own unique filter. It's not credible information, it's hearsay.

4) "You are wrong" has yet to be a venacular that I have used in association with my responses. Perhaps you are generalizing the information again?

5) How should you feel about what, specifically? The question is too generalized. And, why would you expect me to give you a response? It's not for me to say how you should or should not feel about anything. But I WILL challenge you when you try to posture to the masses how THEY should or should not feel about stuff. People have a right to their feelings. What they do with them is up to them.

6) Your experience with being privileged to having discussion with Wyndham about your own situation is unique to you. You are not in a credible position to say one way or another if another owner has taken a combative approach, unless you were actually present at the time those conversations took place. Nor is it for you to say if other owners have been willing to work cooperatively with Wyndham in this process unless you have been exposed to those conversations first hand. For many, as reflected in this thread, WYN isn't talking to them, period. Combative or cooperative, no conversation or discussion coming from WYN, on a continuum, is disrepectful and speaks to an overt intent either punish the owner or hide truth about the ongoing situation.

Ron, do not question your opinions, per se. They are yours and we all have our own unique perspective and opinions in this forum. Generalizing those opinions and posturing them as though they are the same, or should be or implying that they are the same, as other owners however is what creates the questions. Keep it to the first person. Not everyone stands in the same bucket you do.

Get that you dislike being challenged. Will be happy to dial it back when you bring it back to first person statements only.
 

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From 50,000 feet and not being a Wyndham Owner my 20 cents is that I agree with Ron's approach. During my 40 years or so as a business executive I found it worked best if I did whatever it took to open a dialog with the other party. Once I was able to do that and thoroughly understand the other side's point of view I found I was better able to negotiate (or not negotiate and dig in my heels) a solution beneficial to me.

George
 

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From 50,000 feet and not being a Wyndham Owner my 20 cents is that I agree with Ron's approach. During my 40 years or so as a business executive I found it worked best if I did whatever it took to open a dialog with the other party. Once I was able to do that and thoroughly understand the other side's point of view I found I was better able to negotiate (or not negotiate and dig in my heels) a solution beneficial to me.

George

Like you said easy to say but after almost 4 months with no end in sight not very practical. If it was with a reputable entity I would agree but that is not the case here.
 

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That is likely why my mood and attitude are diminishing, not improving. The most recent phone call update I received from Wyndham was on SEPTEMBER 27, 2016!! Let that sink in for a little bit. . . . ten weeks since any type of update.

Of course, that date was coincidentally placed one week after I needed to use my ARP for an event our large group does every Thanksgiving. We reserve ten rooms, most being larger Presidential Reserve suites at Bonnet Creek, using my PR ARP at Bonnet Creek that activates at 14 months. It was the SOLE reason I purchased up to the Presidential Reserve level (I know, stupid, but it was before I found TUG). So, once my account was thawed enough to allow for that, I no longer had access to any of the 3- or 4-bedroom units we use for our group. And that is the entire reason I have my Wyndham account, is for this trip. So, I see no "light" at the end of the tunnel, just a bill every month that must be paid. Even when I remove emotion from the formula, the net result is not a pleasant result, not by a long shot.


Can I infer from this post that Presidential Reserve owners are able to jump in front of regular deeded owners to reserve the best units first? If this is true, isn't that a bit unfair to non PR owners who made purchases prior to the existence of the PR program? And what is to stop them from creating an entirely different ownership level that allows for 15 month ARP (which a PR owner could access by buying more points of course).
 

bnoble

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Think of Presidential Reserve as a separate "club" with its own inventory. Most (but not all) of that inventory is exclusive to PR owners, until quite close to check-in. At that point, "regular Wyndham" owners can book PR inventory. Nothing that was in the "regular Wyndham" bucket got moved to PR, so there are "Presidential" units that aren't part of "Presidential Reserve."

PR owners can book "regular Wyndham" inventory according to the regular Wyndham rules, but if they do so, an equivalent amount of PR inventory is made available "early" to regular Wyndham owners.

Here are the details:
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/wyndham/plus_membersdirectory1415/#/394
 
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