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Trump hotel, pool "rules"

Cyberc

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We are currently staying at the Trump Hotel in Vegas.

My five-year-old daughter was in the pool and wearing her bikini. When she was done she took off her top. One of the pool girls came and asked that she put on her top again as it is the company rules. I declined and ask for the manager, the manager also said that she had to put it on because it is the company rules. I asked that she explained why it was so and she couldn't except that it was the rules. I asked to have the company rules in writing and she eventually couldn't find them in writing.

The manager said that she couldn't enforce the "rules" as they weren't in writing anywhere. So it was up to me if she should wear the top or not.

IMHO who would have a problem with a 5yo without a top and why? I don't accept rules just for the sake of the rules. I understand that a 10yo are asked to put on a top but not a 5yo.
'
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TIA
 

tschwa2

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Americans are very uptight about public nudity even partial nudity. If your daughter was 2 or 3, there probably wouldn't be a problem but at 5 girls are expected to where a shirt or bathing suit top.
 

VegasBella

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This particular issue actually came up recently at another local spot - Town Square. The mother let her two young children play in the park splash pad in just shorts no shirt. The staff complained about both, assuming the long haired boy was a girl, then only complained about the girl. It made the news. Locals weighed in on both sides. It's controversial.

My personal opinion is that it's fine. But I wouldn't have a problem obeying the "rules." Usually the rules say "proper swim attire" which means gendered bathing suits.


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Cyberc

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I would normally accept the rules but I'm having a hard time accepting them just because it's policy.

Imho you don't have a rule just for the rule or just to satisfy the few.

One could argue that heavily overweight people should also cover them selves because someone feels uncomfortable.

According to the management at this hotel also infants should cover themselves, that just don't make sense, uptight or not.

I understand that nudity can be a hot topic for some but please don't make it a problem if it's not.
 

tschwa2

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Then do what you want. Its a cultural norm in the US as is eating with utensils when eating most food in a restaurant. If you don't abide by the cultural norms you or in this case your daughter will probably be subject to additional stares and comments just as if you decided to eat your steak and baked potato by picking it up with your hands while eating in a restaurant
 

DeniseM

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Here is my take on this - I am not comfortable with strangers, who may not have good intentions, looking at my child partially undressed. In the US, it is the norm for little girls to wear tops or bathing suits that cover the top of the torso in public, and that seems like the prudent thing to do.

Now, someone is going to say, "what about boys?" In the US, it is the norm for little boys to swim with their shirts off, and it is not viewed as being exposed.
 
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Blues

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I strongly disagree with the majority of posters here. At 5 there is nothing to see. I would be exactly as concerned at a stranger staring at my 5 year old whether she was wearing a top or not. Someone staring at a young child is creepy. Most adults would not do this. Other than that, I say let them play.
 

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At 5 there is nothing to see.
OK, but you know, child molesters are attracted to children - they aren't looking for fully developed women - that's kind of the point.

Are you aware that conservative statistics say that 1 out of 5 girls are molested during their lives?

Have you heard of good touching and bad touching? You teach it to children by saying that it's not OK for anyone to touch any part of their body that is covered by their bathing suit.

As someone who taught teenage girls for many years, and heard their stories, I believe that parents are sometimes too trusting, because they think that, "most adults would not do this." YMMV
 

brp

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Then do what you want. Its a cultural norm in the US as is eating with utensils when eating most food in a restaurant. If you don't abide by the cultural norms you or in this case your daughter will probably be subject to additional stares and comments just as if you decided to eat your steak and baked potato by picking it up with your hands while eating in a restaurant

Exactly. Cultural norms that make no sense should be challenged. Of course, if people care whether someone "stares" at them for failing to follow the sheeple, then they may not be the ones to challenge the irrational norms.

Cheers.
 

Cyberc

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Then do what you want. Its a cultural norm in the US as is eating with utensils when eating most food in a restaurant. If you don't abide by the cultural norms you or in this case your daughter will probably be subject to additional stares and comments just as if you decided to eat your steak and baked potato by picking it up with your hands while eating in a restaurant

I don't care what other people think of me they can talk all they want. I do however care about my family and in this case my daughter. I don't wanna teach my daughter that it's bad to run around half naked, in this case only wearing her bikini bottom. At the age of 5 she looks just the same as the boys, as she grows older she will need to keep the top on also. I accept norms if they in any way makes sense, but this is just ridiculous.
 

Cyberc

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Here is my take on this - I am not comfortable with strangers, who may not have good intentions, looking at my child partially undressed. In the US, it is the norm for little girls to wear tops or bathing suits that cover the top of the torso in public, and that seems like the prudent thing to do.

Now, someone is going to say, "what about boys?" In the US, it is the norm for little boys to swim with their shirts off, and it is not viewed as being exposed.

I don't think any parent would be comfortable if a stranger looked at their child dressed or half dressed. Since it's the norm there must be a valid reason, because at the age of 5 boys and girls look the same. I don't accept that it's just because she is a girl, that's not a reason.

I would agree I think girls should wear a top unless they are infants.
Why?

I strongly disagree with the majority of posters here. At 5 there is nothing to see. I would be exactly as concerned at a stranger staring at my 5 year old whether she was wearing a top or not. Someone staring at a young child is creepy. Most adults would not do this. Other than that, I say let them play.

Agree.

OK, but you know, child molesters are attracted to children - they aren't looking for fully developed women - that's kind of the point.

Are you aware that conservative statistics say that 1 out of 5 girls are molested during their lives?

Have you heard of good touching and bad touching? You teach it to children by saying that it's not OK for anyone to touch any part of their body that is covered by their bathing suit.

As someone who taught teenage girls for many years, and heard their stories, I believe that parents are sometimes too trusting, because they think that, "most adults would not do this." YMMV

I assume that those who do have a tendency to look at children look at both boys and girls - guess that some might have a preference. In that case boys would need to cover themselves too wouldn't you agree? Boys are just as exposed as girls when they only wear their trunks.

In my book, trust is not something you get it's something you earn. Meaning I don't trust strangers when it comes to my children.

Exactly. Cultural norms that make no sense should be challenged. Of course, if people care whether someone "stares" at them for failing to follow the sheeple, then they may not be the ones to challenge the irrational norms.

Cheers.

Agree, people can talk all they want - I don't care.

I would go so far as to say that if you need to care about what other people think and say of you, you might have other issues you need to worry about.
 

davidvel

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IMHO who would have a problem with a 5yo without a top and why? I don't accept rules just for the sake of the rules. I understand that a 10yo are asked to put on a top but not a 5yo.
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Just curious, why do you understand that a 10yo girl is asked to put on a top? Most 10yo girls have the same chest as a 10yo boy.

Many people feel the way you do. Many also feel that women or men of any age should be able to go to a public pool completely naked because there is no shame or need to hide human body. They think the rules are dumb.
 

cissy

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I can't believe anyone would make such an issue of this. If you don't like the rules, no one is forcing you to go there. "When in Rome......"
 

brp

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Just curious, why do you understand that a 10yo girl is asked to put on a top? Most 10yo girls have the same chest as a 10yo boy.

Many people feel the way you do. Many also feel that women or men of any age should be able to go to a public pool completely naked because there is no shame or need to hide human body. They think the rules are dumb.

First, I disagree about "most" 10 year old girls having the same development as boys. That's does not comport with my experience in life.

Second, whatever one may think about public nudity, it's a law (in most places, anyway). So there are different consequences (and burdens of enforcement) for this rule.

I run races without a shirt. Always have always will. At one race an older gentleman came up to me before the race and commented that some of the women were uncomfortable with my not wearing a shirt.

I said, "Yeah, I can understand that. I support their right to run the race without a shirt as well." The conversation was over.

Some support the puritanical society that we have here. Some, including I, don't. When it's law, we have less choice. When it's arbitrary rule, we do. And this applies in general. I refuse to follow rules (and even some laws) just because they are rules. I do it if it makes sense and if not following materially (in my own opinion) harms someone. And I don't consider "it's a rule and I don't want to see that" to be material harm. But that's me.

Cheers.
 

Jason245

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We are currently staying at the Trump Hotel in Vegas.

My five-year-old daughter was in the pool and wearing her bikini. When she was done she took off her top. One of the pool girls came and asked that she put on her top again as it is the company rules. I declined and ask for the manager, the manager also said that she had to put it on because it is the company rules. I asked that she explained why it was so and she couldn't except that it was the rules. I asked to have the company rules in writing and she eventually couldn't find them in writing.

The manager said that she couldn't enforce the "rules" as they weren't in writing anywhere. So it was up to me if she should wear the top or not.

IMHO who would have a problem with a 5yo without a top and why? I don't accept rules just for the sake of the rules. I understand that a 10yo are asked to put on a top but not a 5yo.
'
Opinions are appreciated
TIA
Cultural and social norms vary depending on the country you goto and their history.

Part of being a traveler is to understand and learn this.

Examples: don't ask for meal modifications in many/most parts of Europe, tip in the usa for restaurant service, and be cognizant of cultural norms when it comes to atire (no matter were you are).

What I find funny is when Europeans make fun of American tourists or stare at them for various things that cause them to stand out (which also makes them target for pick pockets)..

And Americans do same things to European tourists when they come here.

To me all these conversations serve a greater good in helping to educate people of all different cultures of those cultures they may not have been exposed to before and act in a manner that demostrates respect to the country and people you are visiting.







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bizaro86

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What I find funny is when Europeans make fun of American tourists or stare at them for various things that cause them to stand out (which also makes them target for pick pockets)..

And Americans do same things to European tourists when they come here.
k

That sort of depends on whether you're being rude, and whether you're wrong.

Everyone stared at a tourist yelling at a bus driver where I was awhile back. She was speaking to him in Spanish that matches my own high school quality version, and interspersed it with yelling about why he wasn't answering and she was speaking Spanish and knows lots of Spanish people.

Sometimes that would just have been rude, but we were in Lisbon, so she was wrong as well.
 

elleny76

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Anyone who wears a female "bikini" bottom is expected to wear a 'top" since its 2 pieces. If your DD likes not to wear top then get her a pair of trunks and will be more sporty.

(BIKINI: a very brief, close-fitting, two-piece bathing suit for women or girls. )
 

elleny76

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First, I disagree about "most" 10 year old girls having the same development as boys. That's does not comport with my experience in life.

Second, whatever one may think about public nudity, it's a law (in most places, anyway). So there are different consequences (and burdens of enforcement) for this rule.

I run races without a shirt. Always have always will. At one race an older gentleman came up to me before the race and commented that some of the women were uncomfortable with my not wearing a shirt.

.

Hopefully "the women" were uncomfortable because you have a "hot" body with a full 6pack..lol (otherwise I would be uncomfortable too...lol and shirt will be needed) lol
 

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You asked for an opinion then you are arguing against people's opinions when they give them. Clearly you really don't want people's opinions. You are just trying to justify your beliefs. It's not a law. You can do what you like, but no matter how you try to spin it this is out of them norm at what happens here in the US at pools. If you don't believe me go to several pools and look around and see how many 5 year old girls are going without tops and see for yourself.
 

VegasBella

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A lot of people are saying this is cultural. But I gave an example right here in Vegas where this was very controversial. It's NOT cultural if it's controversial among the people in the culture. That's like saying 'being against gay marriage in the US is cultural and it's the norm' - well it was until just a few years ago and now the majority are ok with gay marriage ... but it's still controversial. So it's not "cultural" either way. It's controversial! It's an UNSETTLED issue in THIS culture.

This is particularly true because in Vegas many people who live here are very laid back about nudity and we have a few topless pools. But we also have an LDS history. So all of you saying "this is cultural" are just WRONG. Sorry, but you're wrong. You will find many Las Vegans who think a little kindergartner-age child should cover up and plenty who don't. We disagree about this issue! It's not one way or the other.


I can't believe anyone would make such an issue of this. If you don't like the rules, no one is forcing you to go there. "When in Rome......"

Except that is WASN'T a rule, as stated in the first post. There's no rule about it.

OK, but you know, child molesters are attracted to children - they aren't looking for fully developed women - that's kind of the point.
Are you aware that conservative statistics say that 1 out of 5 girls are molested during their lives?
Have you heard of good touching and bad touching? You teach it to children by saying that it's not OK for anyone to touch any part of their body that is covered by their bathing suit.
As someone who taught teenage girls for many years, and heard their stories, I believe that parents are sometimes too trusting, because they think that, "most adults would not do this." YMMV

It's one thing to be laissez-faire about clothing and entirely another thing to be laissez-faire about parental supervision. These are entirely separate issues.
Any responsible parent at a pool does not let their children out of sight. Besides the very low risk of stranger pedophilia at a public pool (most of that molestation you reference occurs between NONstrangers and not out in public places) there is the very real risk of DROWNING.

AND, the better way to teach children is to tell them that they have control over their bodies and that no one should touch them in ways they don't want to be touched. It's not just about 'touching parts that are covered by their bathing suits' it's about unwanted touching, period. You teach them how to say NO and you teach them that it's OK to tell a grown up. You explain that they never have to keep a secret they don't want to keep and it's always OK to tell Mommy about anything someone does to them.
 

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I don't think one is right or wrong. Whatever that is not obvious that a property wants to enforce should be in writing.

I cannot withstand hot weather... When I was young, probably up to the age of 7 or so, I used to take my top off during a hot day when I was home or at my father's business. People in the neighborhood used to say I was a tomboy, more amused than disapproving. My parents did not care whether I had a top on or not. If I have a daughter that age, I would have told her not to remove her top...
 
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