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Richelle

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Folks, the speculation (er, gossip) is a little unfair given that Ron can't say more than he has already.

Good point. I just wish Wyndham would give people a little more to go on. It's hard to use the honey method if they don't return your calls or emails. Unless someone wants to go to their corporate office in person, I don't see that changing. I'd go but I'm not a VIP so they wouldn't talk to me about it anyway. Has anyone gotten a lawyer involved? Just curious as to if they had more interaction with Wyndham the people without lawyers.

I'm not asking you Ron. :)


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bnoble

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Hmmmm. . . ."arm chair quarterbacking" . . . . "speculation er, gossip." Sounds like the exact same things.
Not quite. I wrote a simple observation, based on Ron's own words in this thread, and made a comparison to his approach vs. some others. I did not try to speculate on motivation or the details of the outcome.
 

T-Dot-Traveller

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I agree it is a little unfair to Ron if we gossip .
The " DeflateGate" acceptance by the Patriots - sounds like a good analogy.

I will add & paraphrase a legacy Ron post :
" When I owned 100 low priced rental houses" and had to locate the tenants - so I could collect the rent .
- I made sure I knew - the guy on the corner who sold "product" - because we both had a common interest .... "

I think Ron used all his " learning & skills " to find a "resolution " - that he can live with .

Good luck : that all who are / were "frozen "- can achieve the same in 2017 .

****
Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to : Ron Parise
and ALL of you on this thread .

It has been quite a read in 2016
and will not likely end at year end .

.
 

Tia

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Wyndham has access to information regular owners do not, they will do what they want be it right or not. Whose going to know or have proof?


My understanding is they bankrupt Equivest back ~2008 when Bluebeards Castle HOA's had proof and a legitimate claim, legal maneuvering. Castle still got a huge settlement, but not as much as it might of I gather from reading a certain yahoo group .
 

SueDonJ

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Folks, the speculation (er, gossip) is a little unfair given that Ron can't say more than he has already.

True, it's not fair to speculate specifically about what Ron might have done/known/accepted, although Ron could have avoided it by simply saying nothing. ;)

But if I were an owner in the same boat with a frozen account and I learned that Wyndham is selectively choosing to work with some affected owners (apparently asking them to agree to non-disclosure terms) while completely ignoring others, I'd be even more pissed as all get-out! Not at Ron, but at Wyndham! They've already done enough to cause unbelievable frustration and worry, this is just piling on.
 

ecwinch

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True, it's not fair to speculate specifically about what Ron might have done/known/accepted, although Ron could have avoided it by simply saying nothing. ;)

But if I were an owner in the same boat with a frozen account and I learned that Wyndham is selectively choosing to work with some affected owners (apparently asking them to agree to non-disclosure terms) while completely ignoring others, I'd be even more pissed as all get-out! Not at Ron, but at Wyndham! They've already done enough to cause unbelievable frustration and worry, this is just piling on.
Come on Sue - if we stopped speculation, there would be at least 35% less posts on this forum. :)
 

SueDonJ

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Come on Sue - if we stopped speculation, there would be at least 35% less posts on this forum. :)

Oh I agree! Maybe I worded it wrong but I'm trying to say that speculating about what it might take to reach an agreement with Wyndham is different than trying to force Ron to share what worked for him (which is how I read a few of the posts.) It might just me but in the other owners' shoes, I wouldn't find it helpful to know that there can be a resolution with Wyndham unless I also knew how to reach it. And that's why if I were in Ron's shoes I probably would have just stayed away from the thread rather than dropping just enough bombs to further tick off the others who are similarly affected (and possibly, risking Wyndham's wrath by skirting the non-disclosure terms?)
 

ecwinch

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Oh I agree! Maybe I worded it wrong but I'm trying to say that speculating about what it might take to reach an agreement with Wyndham is different than trying to force Ron to share what worked for him (which is how I read a few of the posts.) It might just me but in the other owners' shoes, I wouldn't find it helpful to know that there can be a resolution with Wyndham unless I also knew how to reach it. And that's why if I were in Ron's shoes I probably would have just stayed away from the thread rather than dropping just enough bombs to further tick off the others who are similarly affected (and possibly, risking Wyndham's wrath by skirting the non-disclosure terms?)

Agreed. No need to try to cajole Ron into violating his NDA.

BTW - how close is this thread to eclipsing the post record of the Marriott Ocean Club (Aruba) thread and are you still getting those extra pens and soap?
 

am1

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Agreed. No need to try to cajole Ron into violating his NDA.

Lot of back in forth on here with very little information on this.

We may eventually get some more useful info from people that actually have info.
 

SueDonJ

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Agreed. No need to try to cajole Ron into violating his NDA.

BTW - how close is this thread to eclipsing the post record of the Marriott Ocean Club (Aruba) thread and are you still getting those extra pens and soap?

Sometimes I miss that thread; it's standing at 2,814 Replies/222,445 Views. And I've moved on from the pens to trying to put together a set of Fiestaware dishes. ;)
 

T-Dot-Traveller

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Wow - 2814 replies and 222,445 views

I do not think I had read or joined TUG as I have no memory of it - when did it " start "

I thought 88,000 and growing might be much closer to a "record "

.
 

SueDonJ

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Wow - 2814 replies and 222,445 views

I do not think I had read or joined TUG as I have no memory of it - when did it " start "

I thought 88,000 and growing might be much closer to a "record "

.

Started Oct '08 and active through Jul '11, in the Marriott forum. It leads that forum in number of Views but comes in second for Replies.

You can find out all the Replies/Views stats by forum, by going to each forum's home page and clicking on either "Replies" or "Views" in the yellow task bar. There are a few other sort commands as well. If you test it, you can easily get back to the forum's default setting by clicking on "Last Message" all the way on the right.
 

Jan M.

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True, it's not fair to speculate specifically about what Ron might have done/known/accepted, although Ron could have avoided it by simply saying nothing. ;)

But if I were an owner in the same boat with a frozen account and I learned that Wyndham is selectively choosing to work with some affected owners (apparently asking them to agree to non-disclosure terms) while completely ignoring others, I'd be even more pissed as all get-out! Not at Ron, but at Wyndham! They've already done enough to cause unbelievable frustration and worry, this is just piling on.

Wyndham's MO is to always try to intimidate as much as possible and in every way possible, when they've decided that the evidence is overwhelmingly against them they settle out of court and always get a non disclosure agreement. As part of the settlement they take back your deeds and you are prohibited from owning Wyndham in the future. They really, really don't want the rest of us owners finding out about their misdeeds. This is what I was told by two different attorneys associated with a class action lawsuit against Wyndham. I had no interest in joining the lawsuit but I asked a lot of questions and what I learned was interesting and typical of any big company.

Think about the chain of events. Wyndham found out when the issue with the credit pool was brought to their attention that it was not an isolated incident. They instituted a search program to identify owners with more reservations than the points they own could account for and froze those owner's accounts. Their lawyers contacted owners and saying tell us what you did and it will go easier. They were clearly fishing for information and I believe from following the posts that what they found was that there were more glitches and ways to manipulate the system than they had realized.

There are certain mega renters that Wyndham has wanted to get rid of for some time. It appears to me that Wyndham was handed a golden opportunity to rid themselves of some of these mega renters and is using it. Owners who purchased at certain resorts because they wanted to be able to go to that specific resort were having an extremely hard time getting reservations because those resorts and peak times were a cash cow for the mega renters who had the means to get a large number of the best reservations. Those unhappy owners made their complaints known to Wyndham and the rule to limit the number of reservations one owner could have was instituted but was completely ineffective because some of the big mega renters had also become points managers and could book the maximum number of reservations for every owner they handled. Also several of the mega renters had amazing websites that made it look like they owned the resorts. Their websites even had better pictures of the resorts and units than Wyndham's website! Too many renters were telling sales at those resorts that they had no need to buy because the mega renter they used could get them the reservations they wanted with no big outlay to own. Wyndham has had a "hate on" for these mega renter/owners for some time. Ron saw the handwriting on the wall and was realistic and proactive in dealing with his situation. I'm sure there are some other big owners/mega renters who took the same path.

Some people who were frozen were restored fully or partially after their audits were completed and if needed adjustments were made to their points. We've really only seen posts from a small number of people who were frozen. It makes sense that Wyndham is focusing on trying to figure out how to fix their system to eliminate and prevent the glitches and opportunities for manipulation that were uncovered. But the delay is leaving some owners paying huge maintenance fees while not able to get the good reservations they need for themselves and/or their rentals. A couple of these owners who have been posting are very frustrated by the lack of communication from Wyndham. I'm wondering if it is intentional on Wyndham's part. As we have read in the posts anyone who is in the rental business has already lost out on the reservations they would normally have booked for next summer and now it looks like they are losing the reservations for next Thanksgiving and Christmas too. Is Wyndham's strategy to let them bleed money while their rental business slowly dies? Maybe it is because of the holidays and the end of the 2016 use year and after the first of the year having reached settlements with the first layer of owners they will proceed onto the next layer of owners?

I think we all can grasp that Wyndham can't actually come out and make any announcements because that could be perceived as admitting they failed to do what they promised in maintaining an accurate accounting system. But this whole situation leaves all of us with a lot of questions and feeling insecure about our ownerships.
 
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wjappraise

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Just armchair quarterbacking, but...

Ron appears to have been willing to actively work with the folks at WVO. In return, they seem to be helping him. Flies, honey, vinegar, etc.

Come on Sue - if we stopped speculation, there would be at least 35% less posts on this forum. :)

Just don't call it "speculation," call it "armchair quarterbacking." Same action, less vitriol.
 

wjappraise

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Wow - 2814 replies and 222,445 views

I do not think I had read or joined TUG as I have no memory of it - when did it " start "

I thought 88,000 and growing might be much closer to a "record "

.

It is a record, for the Wyndham forum. Just not for the entire TUG site.
 

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Some people who were frozen were restored fully...

Has anyone been restored fully? I have many restrictions. I can book, cancel, add guest passes, but that is about it. No buying, selling, RCI, etc.
 

wjappraise

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I don't believe anyone has been fully restored.


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am1

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I don't believe anyone has been fully restored.


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I guess they are in succeeding in annoying a lot of owners. Yesterday there were no call backs even after 10 messages were left. I just had to keep calling the 1-877 number. Sometimes 10 - 15 times then waiting for a few minutes before being given the option for a non existent call back. Then try again.

My question is still what is so difficult about canceling reservations and adding guest names to rooms within the next 15 - 20 days that regular owner care could not handle it? Or is it just another way to frustrate us?
 

wjappraise

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I guess they are in succeeding in annoying a lot of owners. Yesterday there were no call backs even after 10 messages were left. I just had to keep calling the 1-877 number. Sometimes 10 - 15 times then waiting for a few minutes before being given the option for a non existent call back. Then try again.

My question is still what is so difficult about canceling reservations and adding guest names to rooms within the next 15 - 20 days that regular owner care could not handle it? Or is it just another way to frustrate us?

Adam - this is what is puzzling to me about your case and your approach. Why haven't you accepted the simple terms outlined for you to have your account "unfrozen"? For those of us in the same situation, it is very frustrating to have this debacle into the fifth month. But I agreed to the limited terms, which really were not ones that I surrendered rights, but simply that I would follow rules I already did follow. This has allowed me to have website availability to make and cancel reservations and add guest certificates since October 27. While not ideal. It is so much better than what I had prior and what you are still dealing with. And I agree it is unfair and heavy handed how Wyndham is proceeding. But they are the boss here, always have been, always will be.

BNoble stated that likely if we use honey instead of vinegar, we will get more cooperation from Wyndham. He's right. It is ridiculous that we have to bend the knee, but it is necessary. And in the interim, it is nice to have website access, even with its limitations. Wouldn't you be better off to reconsider your approach?


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am1

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Adam - this is what is puzzling to me about your case and your approach. Why haven't you accepted the simple terms outlined for you to have your account "unfrozen"? For those of us in the same situation, it is very frustrating to have this debacle into the fifth month. But I agreed to the limited terms, which really were not ones that I surrendered rights, but simply that I would follow rules I already did follow. This has allowed me to have website availability to make and cancel reservations and add guest certificates since October 27. While not ideal. It is so much better than what I had prior and what you are still dealing with. And I agree it is unfair and heavy handed how Wyndham is proceeding. But they are the boss here, always have been, always will be.

BNoble stated that likely if we use honey instead of vinegar, we will get more cooperation from Wyndham. He's right. It is ridiculous that we have to bend the knee, but it is necessary. And in the interim, it is nice to have website access, even with its limitations. Wouldn't you be better off to reconsider your approach?


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For my accounts there was no offer of restoring access right away what was offered was at some point in the future access may be restored. I wanted assurances when that would be and Wyndham did not provide that.
 

ecwinch

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wjappraise

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For my accounts there was no offer of restoring access right away what was offered was at some point in the future access may be restored. I wanted assurances when that would be and Wyndham did not provide that.

I am sorry Adam, I thought you had been offered the same terms for unfreezing your account as the rest of the impacted owners.


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I am sorry Adam, I thought you had been offered the same terms for unfreezing your account as the rest of the impacted owners.


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I am sure I would have accepted those terms, almost any terms that would allow me access to my ownerships. Wyndham has turned this ordeal into a nightmare.

The resorts are amazing, people are great but the management and sales hold Wyndham back from an owners perspective. After this I would never suggest anyone purchase resale or retail. Unless they want a headache and constant uncertainty.
 
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