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Bought retail....

drbeetee

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Rescind, Rescind, Rescind. I have been looking for some deals in the Wyndham system, and found some great ones through resale. I suggest do some research take some great advice from other Tuggers who are hear to help. My yearly maintenance fees are going to be around $780 bucks. I bought a total of 147,000 points for less than the cost of 1 years maintenance fees. I may work as a financial planner, but it doesn't take my credentials to figure out that is a MUCH better deal than Retail! There are plenty of deals to be had, if you become and educated consumer about what you are purchasing. I would Rescind Tomorrow. I'm new and still learning the whole process myself, so take this unanimous advice RESCIND!
 

timeos2

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It's very simple really. Virtually no timeshare or system is worth what the sellers ask retail. That goes 4+ times over for Wyndham as what you pay $1 for is worth, after your rescind period ends, $.02 or less - maybe zero. Why would you want to suffer a 98%+ loss of your principle paid within days of purchase? Especially when YOU can easily buy the same thing - maybe a better choice of points/home resort - for that $.02 or less. The only value is in use - the value exists only in resale. Paying retail simply means you'll regret it and be yet another seller looking to dump for little or nothing what cost you tens of thousands.

Rescind while you can &, if you like what you saw (and we agree Wyndham is a great system - although we now think it's best enjoyed through rental not ownership) go ahead & buy resale or rent & enjoy. You won't regret those choices but it's virtually guaranteed you'd regret keeping a retail purchase.

Good luck - don't make an expensive mistake you can easily avoid.
 

Rent_Share

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Depends on your finacial situation. If you can afford to go to Gold VIP or higher and like to travel a lot over the years. I would not recend, what you agreed to buy are VIP eligable points and can be supplemented later on to get the status. I would also just observe, some of the people saying recend are VIP status owners. Make you own decision. Also, you may want to bear in mind re-sellers have a vested interest in the sales pitch to recend and buy retail, this increases the pool of re-sale buyers. I feel sorry for people that follow that line and end up getting caught up in the timeshare re-sale world of problems. You may want to review threads on TUG where people have shared their problems in this regard.


Pay no attention to this POSTER no one has yet to figure out his agenda, reads what anybody posts from any encounter and reposts it as fact

The posters here are users not resellers
 
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rrlongwell

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Pay no attention to this POSTER no one has yet to figure out his agenda

The posters here are users not resellers

Thanks for the attack post. I would think there might have been common agreement that the decision should be up to the buyer. I was not going to mention a particularily interest post recently that pertained to someone who did recend a Wyndham contract and many many years later is not facinig collection actions. P.S. The reason no one has figured out my agenda is I do not have one.

The following are some of the links that should be reviewed. The first one is of particularly interesting.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168495
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167502
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169018
 
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timeos2

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Depends on your finacial situation. If you can afford to go to Gold VIP or higher and like to travel a lot over the years. I would not recend, what you agreed to buy are VIP eligable points and can be supplemented later on to get the status. I would also just observe, some of the people saying recend are VIP status owners. Make you own decision. Also, you may want to bear in mind re-sellers have a vested interest in the sales pitch to recend and buy retail, this increases the pool of re-sale buyers. I feel sorry for people that follow that line and end up getting caught up in the timeshare re-sale world of problems. You may want to review threads on TUG where people have shared their problems in this regard.

Unless they plan to live at least two full lifetimes each they would NEVER recover - I mean just break even, not get any real benefit or value - out of the THOUSANDS (not like a few hundred that maybe the case could be made for) and even that is if the "benefits" today were still in place & at the same level as now (and, as we all know, there is ZERO guarantee that any VIP benefit or level will be there tomorrow - forget a year or ten from now). But the money (and interest if financed - another mistake with a timeshare) is real, guaranteed to Wyndham & REALLY GONE. I'm sure they have better uses for thousands of dollars than padding Wyndham's sales pockets with no benefit to them.

Recommending anyone that didn't already fall (& pay for) retail Wyndham is a bad thing and cannot be justified by the numbers. They just don't work. It's easy to justify resale (or even better - renting) and that's the bottom line. Retail = ripoff. End of short story. Even bringing up VIP is falling into the sales doublespeak trap meant to confuse. Ignore it, and all retail purchases, is the best advice there is.
 

Rent_Share

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Thanks for the attack post. I would think there might have been common agreement that the decision should be up to the buyer. I was not going to mention a particularily interest post recently that pertained to someone who did recend a Wyndham contract and many many years later is not facinig collection actions. P.S. The reason no one has figured out my agenda is I do not have one.


Using that as an argument not to properly rescind and to continue with a worthless contract is an an example of you applying a single statement to all transactions, which is the issue I have with your posts
 

rrlongwell

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Using that as an argument not to properly rescind and to continue with a worthless contract is an an example of you applying a single statement to all transactions, which is the issue I have with your posts

Sounds like a personal problem to me. Time to get back to the orginal poster.
 

Sandi Bo

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IMO, one of the hardest pills to swallow, is how little resale value timeshares have. What other product can you purchase for $20,000 and 1 week later (when your rescind period is over) you have something with a resale value of $1 (see ebay sales).
 

Timeshare Von

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Personally, I cannot see any rationale that justifies paying the huge price charged by the developer so I'm 100% in support of the advice to rescind and then do further research if you're seriously interested in getting involved in TS ownership.
 

ronparise

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Depends on your finacial situation. If you can afford to go to Gold VIP or higher and like to travel a lot over the years. I would not recend, what you agreed to buy are VIP eligable points and can be supplemented later on to get the status. I would also just observe, some of the people saying recend are VIP status owners. Make you own decision. Also, you may want to bear in mind re-sellers have a vested interest in the sales pitch to recend and buy retail, this increases the pool of re-sale buyers. I feel sorry for people that follow that line and end up getting caught up in the timeshare re-sale world of problems. You may want to review threads on TUG where people have shared their problems in this regard.

Here are a few threads of many that you might want to review. The first one is of particular interest.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168495
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167502
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169018

I fail to see how the problems in the three threads cited relate to the discussion at hand, ie should I pay Wyndhams retail prices, or should I buy on the secondary market

There my be no agenda here but it is true that misery loves company
 

DrBopp

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Retail vs Resale

Hubby and I just went to a Wyndham timeshare Presentation this weekend and bought 105,000 points, and of course they tell you you have to buy then or there all these extra yearly fees you have to pay if you go a different time to purchase. Now after researching I am worried we are overpaying by a lot.

What are your thoughts?

The main things we liked about the program are:
1. Flexibility of location/ time to use
2. Only fees after mortgage is paid is the maintenance fees

Anyone with insight to give would be great, I read we should have 6 days to cancel, so hoping we can decide soon.

My concerns with buying from e-bay, I want to make sure we can use the whole wyndham/rci without paying additional fees, and not sure who I am buying from.

Thanks for the help.
If you don't believe what people are telling you about retail vs resale, then spend the $15,000 to $20,000 you have committed to and if you don't regret it somewhere down the the line, then retail was perfect for you. On the other hand, if you rescind now, purchase resale for $1-$1,000 for the same timeshare or more, and find that it is for you, then you have saved $15,000 +. Either way, you can always buy retail later. The main thing is to be happy with what you buy. I'm happy with what I bought, 480000 points for under $1000, but you may be different. Whatever your comfort level is with spending YOUR money, then be comfortable. But the only intentions here on this board is to help you make the best decision you can, give your an honest evaluation of your choices. But, it's your choice, your money and your satisfaction. You need to be happy with your choices. We all here are pretty happy with what we have. We wish to help you attain that same level. Good Luck!

Gordon
 

ESCHWEGE

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I am telling you what I had to do because I found out about this on the last day. I did not have the time to go to the post office so I faxed it and yes they did except it. That is why I said keep the fax receipt and call the following day, so that there is some kind of paper trail.
 

Passepartout

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I am telling you what I had to do because I found out about this on the last day. I did not have the time to go to the post office so I faxed it and yes they did except it. That is why I said keep the fax receipt and call the following day, so that there is some kind of paper trail.

If this is accurate, and it turns out that you are released from your contract, thank your lucky stars. They didn't HAVE to honor it. By law, a postmark on your rescission letter from the final day of rescission or earlier, is all that they have to honor.

Welcome to TUG!

Jim Ricks
 

pacodemountainside

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Thank you for posting what the letter should include. I found the area in my contact that says I can send a letter, but it didn't state what the letter should say so this helps!! And I didn't think to have both of us sign it! Thanks again for your help, it is saving us a lot of money!!

It is my understanding based on signing legal documents how one signs is how original document was executed.

If Joe OR Mary either can sign

If Joe AND Mary both have to sign

Since Wyndham abhors recissions both should sign to be safe

The poster here who faxed needs to say some "Hail Marys"

Virtually all the other posts I have read where one did not follow rules explictly got zapped.

Also, recission period is a state thingy and I have seen variances from 3 business days to ten elapsed days.

Apparently Wyndham has changed its policy. Only recission I did was over ten years ago. It mandated their form had to be signed and notarized by all parties and ALL materials be returned in good condition!
 

ronparise

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If this is accurate, and it turns out that you are released from your contract, thank your lucky stars. They didn't HAVE to honor it. By law, a postmark on your rescission letter from the final day of rescission or earlier, is all that they have to honor.

Welcome to TUG!

Jim Ricks

Jim

The department at Wyndham that handles rescissions is not nearly as particular about the form a rescission letter takes as you might think

When I rescinded, I sent a letter, certified mail, and a fax and an email. and I followed up with phone calls.

The process was well underway by the time they got the certified letter. They began work on the strength of the email or fax. They did not wait for the certified mail. A fax does have a date stamp as does an email so I think thats enough

I am not suggesting that anyone rely on my experience and wait until the last minute and send a fax, but my experience was similar to ESCHWEGE's; a fax did work

It is my belief that this department in Wyndham has two functions: they process rescissions they dont try to save sales...and by doing their job properly and without issue they protect Wyndham from being sued for their salesman's lies. I didnt experience any resistance to my rescission request nor did I get any follow up calls from sales, trying to change my mind... they did their work quickly and I had my refund check quickly
 

Passepartout

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Ron, That's good to know. Some TS developers are not as consumer friendly (certain Mexican outfits come to mind) as you found Wyndham. It's still good to have all one's ducks lined up when using the strength of law to assert your rights. Some folks just automatically get their backs up when law is quoted.

Jim
 

Mjlajl

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Ok so planning to get my letter together today my next question is what do I do with all the books they gave me? I am required to send them back?
 

scootr5

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Ok so planning to get my letter together today my next question is what do I do with all the books they gave me? I am required to send them back?

To be on the safe side, send everything they gave you back.
 

Passepartout

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Ok so planning to get my letter together today my next question is what do I do with all the books they gave me? I am required to send them back?

I can't remember anyone ever saying that they were asked for them or that the return of anything held up the rescission. One guy did say that he had been charged for a Mexican buffet breakfast, but that was it.

If it's convenient, drop 'em off (after hours), but if not, I'd keep the stuff until asked for it.

Jim
 

pacodemountainside

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It is my understanding based on signing legal documents how one signs is how original document was executed.

If Joe OR Mary either can sign

If Joe AND Mary both have to sign

Since Wyndham abhors recissions both should sign to be safe

Apparently Wyndham has changed its policy. Only recission I did was over ten years ago. It mandated their form had to be signed and notarized by all parties and ALL materials be returned in good condition!

Considering thousands at stake I would spring for $10-$15 postage!

Also, if on credit card would notify this transaction is void!
 

vckempson

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Ok so planning to get my letter together today my next question is what do I do with all the books they gave me? I am required to send them back?

Put the books aside and don't send them back unless required in your contract. BTW, anyone, and I mean ANYONE who suggests that you shouldn't rescind is tainted by a need to justify their past mistakes of buying retail. No reasons exist to makeing it worthwhile to pay full retail price to Wyndham... NONE!

Various loopholes existed years ago, (some still now) that allow you to get to VIP status without paying full retail. That's harder and harder to do. VIP status is NOT worth the money if you have to pay full retail to get there.

BTW, I own 330,000 points, all purchased resale for way less than $1,000. We've been on six or seven trips so far and the points work exactly the same as retail points when booking, checking in and staying at the resorts.
 

Timeshare Von

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Ron, That's good to know. Some TS developers are not as consumer friendly (certain Mexican outfits come to mind) as you found Wyndham. It's still good to have all one's ducks lined up when using the strength of law to assert your rights. Some folks just automatically get their backs up when law is quoted.

Jim

Wow "consumer friendly" and "Wyndham" in the same sentence? How can that be???
 

ronparise

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Wow "consumer friendly" and "Wyndham" in the same sentence? How can that be???

Just to be clear...I didnt say consumer friendly

I just think that the rescission dept wants to avoid being sued.
 

pacodemountainside

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rent_Share
Pay no attention to this POSTER no one has yet to figure out his agenda

The posters here are users not resellers

Thanks for the attack post. I would think there might have been common agreement that the decision should be up to the buyer. I was not going to mention a particularily interest post recently that pertained to someone who did recend a Wyndham contract and many many years later is not facinig collection actions. P.S. The reason no one has figured out my agenda is I do not have one.

The following are some of the links that should be reviewed. The first one is of particularly interesting.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168495
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167502
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169018

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by rrlongwell : April 15, 2012 at 09:21 PM.




"In my opinion, a way of phrasing the above more to Wyndham's liking would be to observe the rental portion is of growing significance to the profitability of Wyndham Worldwide and that organizational changes need to made to reconizing the increasing role of the rental related activities.*********** Have fun, it took me forever and a day to get all of the problems with my account resolved when I took over my mother's and step fathers Wyndham timeshares relating to Wyndham percentant insistance on taking back some or all of my Club Wyndham Plus timeshares and going into Club Wyndham Access instead.********* It is not real surprising to me that this effort is not limited to direct purchase/inherited timeshares, but also includes the re-sale buyers."


In my opionion, the driving intent of Wyndham is create new developer sales into the Club Wyndham Access program where Club Wyndham Access owns the deeds and Wyndham can take over the use rights at various points in time for the for their own uses. If I am right, this would primarily affect re-sale owners, UDI owners, fixed week owners, converted week owner etc.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RR:

If you do not have an agenda, then maybe it is paranoia!


I am not aware of any unindicted co-conspirators or clicks

It is differences of opinion and perspectives that make Forums like this valuable. One would expect disagreement but not feel they are being attacked.

However, when one relies on Wyndham salespeople and rumors they are going to end up in deep shit!

Like other poster I fail to see the relevance of above referenced posts to this thread!


In the real world of e-bay resale where you have original owner, post card guy, buyer, Title Company, County Clerk, Wyndham Deeding, post office, etc. all involved it is amazing more problems do not arise as these are all humans who do make mistakes. Given Wyndham hates resales as they view it as a lost sale when in reality many resale buyers could not come up with $15K, $25K whatever. Likewise, some people simply cannot pay MF. Until they sell and someone starts paying MF all the resort owners share this loss/extra burden plus POA.


After reading posts on www.wyndsham.com I hope you understand VIP benefits can and will be exterminated.

The math is simple, $50K squandered on basic VIP is vaporized when recission period expires!. If left in diversified no load, low operating fee mutual fund like Vanguard 500 or Total Market Index over a long period should return 9-10% or around $5K a year. If not, maybe we should start learning a second language and/or buying North Korea war bonds!

With $5K earnings I could rent 1,000,000 points at $500/ 100,000 points. This is 3 two BR Presidentials at BC and change. My 300K points will get me two Deluxe 1 BRs and change .If I maxed out Platinum owners VIP discounts I could theoritically end up with around 2 million points while my basic VIP would get me around 400K. I think a fifth grader would easily understand this math! Of course , I still have my $50K to supplemet retirement
and provide a nice reserve fund.

Your post indicates that even a Platnium VIP owner, you got screwed by deeding operation. I have to admit it is beyond my comprehension how deeding can force one to go to sales as the standard sales pitch and actually written in Deed is one can use, rent, will to heirs, etc. This deeded right cannot be changed. Of course, if one owns time shares in several states and has not had an estate planning attorney address say using a Living Trust then problems are guaranteed! It would make more sense to me for Deeding to screw over big resale buyers.


My original purchase took place at Branson, MO and it took two years to get a deed. Seems mighty Wyndham told Taney County Clerk she had to accept their deed form. Little did they realize the power a Southern politican/bureaucrat wields and finally came around.


Yes, I like several posters here are VIPs. Unfortunatelty, I did not have the benefit of this Forum and other Internet postings and there were no $1.00 e-bay sales eleven years ago. Indeed I think it is great when poster lists holdings so one has a clue where his biases might lie or is it lay?


I have followed the olde make lemonade approach and learned how to use Wyndham/RCI to my benefit, especially the olde RCI 28K deposits. I have taken over 60 weeks of vacation in one and two and a couple three BRs and figuring MF of $1,500 a year and amortizing cost of VIP over 10 years have spent less than $800 a week for lodging. However, I paid about 1 /2 what VIP is going for today and I am retired so if a bargain/cancellation, cancel and rebook pops up all I have to do is call cat sitter who also runs a car service and have her haul me out to DIA.


After catching saleperson in third or so lie I have had them disappear and some one rush me to gifting before other potential victims hear our heated discussion , but never throwed off propetry. Sales just rents some space and has no authority over general common area much less my unit!


Hey, kick back, hang loose, have a cold one, book that dream vacation , read about Don Quixote and stay away from those owner updates. Let Ron and myself rattle their cages.



Check out the following adventures of Don Quixote. Could attending too many owner updates be equated with reading too many chivalric novels and tilting windmills????


Don Quixote ( /ˌdɒn kiːˈhoʊtiː/; Spanish: [ˈdoŋ kiˈxote] ( listen)), fully titled The Ingenious Gentleman Don Quixote of La Mancha (Spanish: El ingenioso hidalgo don Quijote de la Mancha), is a novel written by Miguel de Cervantes. The novel follows the adventures of Alonso Quijano, who reads too many chivalric novels, and sets out to revive chivalry under the name of Don Quixote. He recruits a simple farmer, Sancho Panza as his squire, who frequently deals with Don Quixote's rhetorical orations on antiquated knighthood with a unique Earthy wit. He is met by the world as it is, initiating themes like Intertextuality, Realism, Metatheatre and Literary Representation.

Published in two volumes a decade apart, in 1605 and 1615, Don Quixote is considered the most influential work of literature from the Spanish Golden Age and the entire Spanish literary canon. As a founding work of modern Western literature, and one of the earliest canonical novels, it regularly appears high on lists of the greatest works of fiction ever published. In one such list, Don Quixote was cited as the "best literary work ever written".


The First Sally

Alonso Quijano, the protagonist of the novel, is a retired country gentleman nearing fifty years of age, living in an unnamed section of La Mancha with his niece and housekeeper. While mostly a rational man of sound reason, his reading of books of chivalry in excess has had a profound effect on him, leading to the distortion of his perception and the wavering of his mental faculties. In essence, he believes every word of these books of chivalry to be true though, for the most part, the content of these books is clearly fiction. Otherwise, his wits, in regards to everything other than chivalry, are intact. He decides to go out as a knight-errant in search of adventure. He dons an old suit of armour, renames himself "Don Quixote de la Mancha," and names his skinny horse "Rocinante". He designates a neighboring farm girl, as his lady love, renaming her Dulcinea del Toboso, while she knows nothing about this.

He sets out in the early morning and ends up at an inn, which he believes to be a castle. He asks the innkeeper, whom he thinks to be the lord of the castle, to dub him a knight. He spends the night holding vigil over his armor, where he becomes involved in a fight with muleteers who try to remove his armor from the horse trough so that they can water their mules. The innkeeper then dubs him a knight to be rid of him, and sends him on his way. Don Quixote next "frees" a young boy who is tied to a tree and beaten by his master by making his master swear on the chivalric code treat the boy fairly. The boy's beating is continued as soon as Quixote leaves. Don Quixote has a run-in with traders from Toledo, who "insult" the imaginary Dulcinea, one of whom severely beats Don Quixote and leaves him on the side of the road. Don Quixote is found and returned to his home by a neighboring peasant.



The Second Sally

While Don Quixote is unconscious in his bed, his niece, the housekeeper, the parish curate, and the local barber secretly burn most of the books of chivalry, and seal up his library pretending that a magician has carried it off. After a short period of feigning health, Don Quixote approaches his neighbor, Sancho Panza, and asks him to be his squire, promising him governorship of an island. The uneducated Sancho agrees, and the pair sneak off in the early dawn. It is here that their series of famous adventures begin, starting with Don Quixote's attack on windmills that he believes to be ferocious giants. The two next encounter a group of friars accompanying a lady in a carriage. They are heavily cloaked, as is the lady, to protect themselves from the hot climate and dust on the road. Don Quixote takes the friars to be enchanters who hold the lady captive. He knocks a friar from his horse, and is immediately challenged by an armed Basque travelling with the company. As he has no shield, the Basque uses a pillow to protect himself, which saves him when Don Quixote strikes him. The combat ends with the lady leaving her carriage and demanding those travel with her to "surrender".

The Pastoral Wanderings

Sancho and Don Quixote go on, and fall in with a group of goatherds. Don Quixote tells Sancho and the goatherds about the "Golden Age" of man, reminiscent of both Ovid and the later Rousseau in which property does not exist, and men live in peace. The goatherds invite the Knight and Sancho to the funeral of Grisóstomo, once a student who left his studies to become a shepherd after reading Pastoral novels, seeking the shepherdess Marcela. At the funeral Marcela appears, delivering a long speech vindicating herself from the bitter verses written about her by Grisóstomo, claiming her own autonomy and freedom from expectations put on her by Pastoral clichés. She disappears into the woods, and Don Quixote and Sancho follow. Ultimately giving up, the two stop and dismount by a pond to rest. Some Galicians arrive to water their ponies, and Rocinante attempts to mate with them. The Galicians hit Rocinante with clubs to dissuade him, which Don Quixote takes as a threat and runs to defend Rocinante. The Galicians beat Don Quixote and Sancho leaving them in great pain.

The Adventures with Cardenio and Dorotea

After leaving the prisoners, The Knight and Sancho wander into the Sierra Morena, and there encounter the dejected Cardenio. Cardenio relates the first part of his story, in which he falls deeply in love with his childhood friend Luscinda, and is hired as the companion to the Duke's son, putting leading to his friendship with the Duke's younger son, Don Fernando. Cardenio confides in Don Fernando his love for Luscinda and the delays in their engagement, caused by Cardenio's desire to keep with tradition. After reading Cardenio's poems praising Luscinda, Don Fernando falls in love with her. Don Quixote interrupts when Cardenio suggests that his beloved may have become unfaithful after the formulaic stories of spurned lovers in Chivalric novels.





Don Quixote de la Mancha and Sancho Panza, 1863, by Gustave Doré
In the course of their travels, the protagonists meet innkeepers, prostitutes, goatherds, soldiers, priests, escaped convicts, and scorned lovers. These encounters are magnified by Don Quixote’s imagination into chivalrous quests. Don Quixote’s tendency to intervene violently in matters which do not concern him, and his habit of not paying his debts, result in many privations, injuries, and humiliations (with Sancho often getting the worst of it). Finally, Don Quixote is persuaded to return to his home village. The author hints that there was a third quest, but says that records of it have been lost.
 

rrlongwell

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pacodemountainside ... RR: If you do not have an agenda said:
Thank you for sharing that your re-sale contract purchase had problems with Wyndham. I am sorry to hear that it took two years to get a deed. Also, thank-you for the attack post. It appears I had a similar problem. In my case, I had to hire a attorney/closing company that Title picked as a condition of deed transfer. I would have to pay them. This was the timeshare(s) coming from the Estate. Like in your case, that did not happen. Alas, the problems that need to be overcome when ownership changes occur that are not bought as a new timeshare purchase directly from Wyndham. Unfortantly, I suspect most re-sale buyers, or other attempting to do ownership changes do not have the benifit of a Southern politician to make the transfer go through. In my case, it was the help of the Central Flordia BBB, they do great work.
 
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