[2/10/17 UPDATE] VSE charging for 3rd party reservation changes! [+Contact Info. for complaints]

[rickandcindy23]

I got an email for my SBP, which is great. No guest fees. Yes!

I just know Vistana will take money from us in other ways, like an increase in fees next year. But they cannot charge me more than others because I don't use all of my weeks myself. I know many do use their weeks themselves and never rent, but I rent quite a few of them.

 

[SMHarman]

I got an email for my SBP, which is great. No guest fees. Yes!

I just know Vistana will take money from us in other ways, like an increase in fees next year. But they cannot charge me more than others because I don't use all of my weeks myself. I know many do use their weeks themselves and never rent, but I rent quite a few of them.

It's the SBP board that will take more in your example though that said they also have a fiduciary duty to take the ' right amount' for annual running costs and a reserve fund amount for repair / improvement.

 

[purefct1]

Not correct - please see post #367 above - only Staroption reservations will be charged the fee.

Sigh, Denise - why are you working so hard to made my questions and statements sound incorrect when you yourself are replying incorrectly? It is not Staroptions which trigger the fee / no fee. It is a reservation made via VSN 8 months or less which has this fee and That is all I've been trying to understand. OK, sure, only Staroptions are used to make VSN reservations. But when you tell me not to worry about the difference between VSE and VSN and then you make a big deal about Staroptions, I feel like you are going out of your way to diminish the importance of understanding how the owner and reservation system works.

Do I understand the following correctly:

• Ownership at Vistana properties at Mandatory and Voluntary resorts are via VSE
• Direct purchasers participate in VSN regardless of whether the resorts are Mandatory or Voluntary (at a minimum for more recent purchasers)
• Resale purchasers participate in VSN if the resorts are Mandatory, or if Voluntary then after the purchaser makes some type of direct purchase/conversion
• All VSN reservations made 8 months or less where a guest is added will incur a guest fee, excepting certain times for certain elites
• All VSN reservations are reserved in terms of Staroptions, even during home period (for example you can make a 9 night reservation even though you aren't allowed to make a 5 night reservation - or has this changed?)
• All VSE reservations not in VSN are reserved in terms of weeks ... and since this entire topic is about VSN then non VSN reservations with guests added have not been notified about any fee ... yet (or did I just open a hornet's nest on this comment).

 

[VacationForever]

Sigh, Denise - why are you working so hard to made my questions and statements sound incorrect when you yourself are replying incorrectly? It is not Staroptions which trigger the fee / no fee. It is a reservation made via VSN 8 months or less which has this fee and That is all I've been trying to understand. OK, sure, only Staroptions are used to make VSN reservations. But when you tell me not to worry about the difference between VSE and VSN and then you make a big deal about Staroptions, I feel like you are going out of your way to diminish the importance of understanding how the owner and reservation system works.

Do I understand the following correctly:

• Ownership at Vistana properties at Mandatory and Voluntary resorts are via VSE
• Direct purchasers participate in VSN regardless of whether the resorts are Mandatory or Voluntary (at a minimum for more recent purchasers)
• Resale purchasers participate in VSN if the resorts are Mandatory, or if Voluntary then after the purchaser makes some type of direct purchase/conversion
• All VSN reservations made 8 months or less where a guest is added will incur a guest fee, excepting certain times for certain elites
• All VSN reservations are reserved in terms of Staroptions, even during home period (for example you can make a 9 night reservation even though you aren't allowed to make a 5 night reservation - or has this changed?)
• All VSE reservations not in VSN are reserved in terms of weeks ... and since this entire topic is about VSN then non VSN reservations with guests added have not been notified about any fee ... yet (or did I just open a hornet's nest on this comment).

All correct except the part about reservation at 8 months. You can still make a home resort reservation, i.e. within your deeded season as long as there is availbility between 1 day to 12 months, those reservations are not subject to guest fees. Hence Denise pointed out that only SO reservations are subject to guest fees. You can still make a home resort reservation at 8 months or fewer, subject to availability.

 

[DeniseM]

purefct1 - Your questions have been asked and answered in this thread. I invite you to go back and read carefully. I will not bother you with any further explanations.

 

[dioxide45]

All correct except the part about reservation at 8 months. You can still make a home resort reservation, i.e. within your deeded season as long as there is availbility between 1 day to 12 months, those reservations are not subject to guest fees. Hence Denise pointed out that only SO reservations are subject to guest fees. You can still make a home resort reservation at 8 months or fewer, subject to availability.

I don't think this is specifically called out. While technically you could be making a home resort reservation at < 8 months, you may not actually be doing that. In the past Vistana hasn't enforced the rental rule of not being able to rent StarOption reservations made at your home resort and season at < 8 months, but in reality at 8 months all inventory is supposed to be dumped in to StarOption exchange. I don't know where it is clarified that the fee doesn't apply for reservations made < 8 months at your home resort in your owned season. Are you really making a home resort reservation or pulling inventory from what is essentially the VSN exchange company?

 

[VacationForever]

I don't think this is specifically called out. While technically you could be making a home resort reservation at < 8 months, you may not actually be doing that. In the past Vistana hasn't enforced the rental rule of not being able to rent StarOption reservations made at your home resort and season at < 8 months, but in reality at 8 months all inventory is supposed to be dumped in to StarOption exchange. I don't know where it is clarified that the fee doesn't apply for reservations made < 8 months at your home resort in your owned season. Are you really making a home resort reservation or pulling inventory from what is essentially the VSN exchange company?

Good point. I guess I am mixing the 2 up, where a timeshare is part of VSN vs. outside of VSN. Outside of VSN, you can book your timeshare all the way up until the same day as check in. I don't know about whether VSN bookings under 8 months automatically become SOs reservations, you may be right... I hate to think that I have given up my reservation "rights" to my own timeshare at 8 months.

 

[DeniseM]

I don't know about whether VSN bookings under 8 months automatically become SOs reservations, you may be right... I hate to think that I have given up my reservation "rights" to my own timeshare at 8 months.

Without a doubt, ALL VSN reservations made 0-8 months before check-in are Staroption reservations, regardless of whether you make it at your home resort or another resort. The number of Staroptions used will even be listed on your confirmation.

When you make a Staroption reservation at your home resort, you have no rights of ownership - you are just like any other owner making a Staroption reservation.

However, if you own a voluntary deed with no Staroptions, all reservations are home resort reservations, because obviously, you cannot make a Staroption reservation.

 

[Helios]

So, from the VSE standpoint, an eight months or less reservation made made at your home resort, during your season, matching the unit size you own, and using SOs from your matching unit is a SO reservation. I see that. However, is renting that reservation in violation of the rules and can get you in trouble.

I would think VSE should understand that life gets on the way and sometimes plans made between 1 year and 8 months + 1 day change....

 

[DeniseM]

So, from the VSE standpoint, an eight months or less reservation made made at your home resort, during your season, matching the unit size you own, and using SOs from your matching unit is a SO reservation. I see that. However, is renting that reservation in violation of the rules and can get you in trouble.

Here is how the rule is stated on the reservations - emphasis, mine:

Rental of units reserved using StarOptions (other than a vacation period at your Home Resort) is prohibited.

 

[Helios]

Here is how the rule is stated on the reservations - emphasis, mine:

Thanks for clarifying, it sounds like my example is permissible then. Those resies should be flagged accordingly to avoid confusion.

 

[DeniseM]

Those resies should be flagged accordingly to avoid confusion.

That would require software that isn't cobbled together, and phone Reps. who are well trained - VSE doesn't have either right now...

 

[okwiater]

That would require software that isn't cobbled together, and phone Reps. who are well trained - VSE doesn't have either right now...

I don't think their software is cobbled together. I think it works remarkably well considering the limited size of the network and the inconsistency between different ownership types and restrictions.

I agree with you on the latter half of your comment, though. The phone rep training is... inconsistent -- at best.

 

[Helios]

That would require software that isn't cobbled together, and phone Reps. who are well trained - VSE doesn't have either right now...

Of course, they should still do it...

 

[DavidnRobin]

Thanks for clarifying, it sounds like my example is permissible then. Those resies should be flagged accordingly to avoid confusion.

They do differentiate between a HomeResort vs. SO reservation

 

[Helios]

They do differentiate between a HomeResort vs. SO reservation

When the resie is made after the 8 month mark? How?

 

[DavidnRobin]

When the resie is made after the 8 month mark? How?

Perhaps I am not following - I am saying that the reservations show whether it is a HomeResort or SO Reservation.
It states it on 'Upcoming Villa Stays' for 'Reservation Type' on the VSE dashboard as 'Home Resort Reservation' or 'VSN Reservation'

One the 8-month mark is hit (for most VSE types - the majority used here...) - it is a 'VSN Reservation' even if at Home Resort.
I have an example - I used my WPORV studio for a WPORV 1Bd (6 days) that I made at the 8 month mark - it says VSN Reservation (where my 1Bd states Home Resort Reservation).

Is this the same for other ownership types (e.g. non-VSN Voluntary) - no idea. Likely depends on rules.
Is this what you were referring to?

 

[SMHarman]

Perhaps I am not following - I am saying that the reservations show whether it is a HomeResort or SO Reservation.
It states it on 'Upcoming Villa Stays' for 'Reservation Type' on the VSE dashboard as 'Home Resort Reservation' or 'VSN Reservation'

One the 8-month mark is hit (for most VSE types - the majority used here...) - it is a 'VSN Reservation' even if at Home Resort.
I have an example - I used my WPORV studio for a WPORV 1Bd (6 days) that I made at the 8 month mark - it says VSN Reservation (where my 1Bd states Home Resort Reservation).

Is this the same for other ownership types (e.g. non-VSN Voluntary) - no idea. Likely depends on rules.
Is this what you were referring to?

Well a 6 day reservation is by default SVN, as home reservations have their own rules on days (7) and check in days F, Su, Sa).

 

[DeniseM]

I believe Helios is asking how you can tell if a Staroption reservation was made at an owner's home resort.

You cannot tell by looking at the confirmation, but a skilled Rep. can look it up in the system to see which deed the Staroptions came from. (And of course, when the owner originally makes the Staroption reservations the owner can choose which deed to use.)

Unless, of course, the Staroptions have been banked with other deeds. In that case, they are lumped together into one pool.

 

[DavidnRobin]

Well a 6 day reservation is by default SVN, as home reservations have their own rules on days (7) and check in days F, Su, Sa).

True - however - at <8 months it is going to state VSN Reservation regardless because that is exactly what it is. At <8 months it is a VSN Reservation whether it is 7 days or not - this is part of the 4 pillars of VSE Ownership. If this were done with WKORV/N - villa location guaranteed is lost and one is competing with all other in VSN. With WPORV only competing with VSN as villas are all IV.

I can only speak to WKORV/N, WPORV and WKV (not WSJ as it is fixed) - and assume other types of ownership within VSN. Not sure how reservations for VOI ownerships not within VSN (SDO, SVR, SBP, etc) - or FlexOptions are classified.

 

[dsmrp]

I don't think their software is cobbled together. I think it works remarkably well considering the limited size of the network and the inconsistency between different ownership types and restrictions.

I agree with you on the latter half of your comment, though. The phone rep training is... inconsistent -- at best.

I agree on the reservation software working pretty well. I've worked in IT supporting and testing several schedule driven, time based info systems, and VSE has a lot of what we call 'edge' or 'corner' use cases to account for in the reservation logic. It's crazy sounding to me with the different seasons at various resorts, Home options vs star options for some phases at WSJ, and the whole flex options as home options for 5 resorts.

I agree the CS training should be more consistent and VSE should spend more time on it.
But I bet a good # of their CS reps are working remotely which may contribute to the inconsistencies in learning or knowing the current rules. Everyone plz give the CS reps a break. Their knowledge is sometimes only as good as the training they get, and learning from experience on call cases.

 

[DavidnRobin]

I believe Helios is asking how you can tell if a Staroption reservation was made at an owner's home resort.

You cannot tell by looking at the confirmation, but a skilled Rep. can look it up in the system to see which deed the Staroptions came from. (And of course, when the owner originally makes the Staroption reservations the owner can choose which deed to use.)

Unless, of course, the Staroptions have been banked with other deeds. In that case, they are lumped together into one pool.

Correct - you cannot tell by looking at the reservation, but not sure why it matters - it is still a VSN reservation.
I have 3 friends that rented VSN Reservations at WKORV/N - One was a WKORVN Owner that reserved at <8 months for them using their WKORVN SOs - it stated VSN reservation (not Home Resort). The other 2 were non-WKORV/N Owners.

 

[Helios]

Perhaps I am not following - I am saying that the reservations show whether it is a HomeResort or SO Reservation.
It states it on 'Upcoming Villa Stays' for 'Reservation Type' on the VSE dashboard as 'Home Resort Reservation' or 'VSN Reservation'

One the 8-month mark is hit (for most VSE types - the majority used here...) - it is a 'VSN Reservation' even if at Home Resort.
I have an example - I used my WPORV studio for a WPORV 1Bd (6 days) that I made at the 8 month mark - it says VSN Reservation (where my 1Bd states Home Resort Reservation).

Is this the same for other ownership types (e.g. non-VSN Voluntary) - no idea. Likely depends on rules.
Is this what you were referring to?

I was referencing reservations past 8 months.

Just looked in my dashboard. I see the following types: "Home Resort Reservation" or "Vistana Signature Network Reservation". The first one is obvious/easy to understand. The second tag is the resie type for two different resies I have. One made with banked SOs and one made with intact/100% SOs from a Home Resort/Unit/Week, etc. Obviously, if the exact latter resie had been done before 8 months it would have been tagged "Home Resort Reservation".

So I questioned how I can differentiate the banked SO resie from the "intact SOs from a Home Resort/Unit/Week, etc." resie by simply looking at the dashboard which provides the same tag. Of course, I know where the SOs originated, but could someone else tell by simply looking at the resie print out? I don't think so.

BTW - this resie was made with 100% SOs from a Voluntary unit that was bought from Starwood (via trade ins).

 

[DavidnRobin]

I agree on the reservation software working pretty well. I've worked in IT supporting and testing several schedule driven, time based info systems, and VSE has a lot of what we call 'edge' or 'corner' use cases to account for in the reservation logic. It's crazy sounding to me with the different seasons at various resorts, Home options vs star options for some phases at WSJ, and the whole flex options as home options for 5 resorts.

I agree the CS training should be more consistent and VSE should spend more time on it.
But I bet a good # of their CS reps are working remotely which may contribute to the inconsistencies in learning or knowing the current rules. Everyone plz give the CS reps a break. Their knowledge is sometimes only as good as the training they get, and learning from experience on call cases.

Not an IT person - but I would bet that the next iteration (version) of the on-line reservation system will have the ability to put in a name change for HomeResort reservations (hopefully with name, address, phone, and email fields) - too easy not to do - and reduces resources for Owner Services since no fee is charged anyway.

Any takers?

 

[Helios]

Correct - you cannot tell by looking at the reservation, but not sure why it matters - it is still a VSN reservation

It only matters in the original context, can it be rented per the rules? If you make it before 8 months the answer is clearly yes. If you make it past eight months is the question. Denise's 3:43 post indicates yes. Even if the tag is VSN Reservation.